Baby Reindeer (Netflix)

[Voley]

This is quite something, isn't it?

Darkly comedic drama about stalking. True story and - incredibly- the lead is played by the real-life stalking victim. I'm not sure how much is dramatised/ how much is real but I'm loath to Google or it'll spoiler it for me, I'm sure.

I'm just 3 episodes in and I'm hooked. Very nuanced, not black and white at all, and all the better for it.

 

[marty21]

Watched the first episode - uncomfortable viewing , Mrs21 didn't enjoy it at all and went into the spare room - it isn't 'enjoyable' in a way that some dramas are - I will persist with it. Mrs21 preferred watching a documentary about a grisly murder .

 

[Smokeandsteam]

We watched this in its entirety over the weekend.

I don’t want to ruin it by spoilers, but I thought it felt impressively credible and convincingly nuanced – from both the perspective of the ‘victim’ (who was not simply a victim) and the stalker (an incredible performance, both terrifying and movingly vulnerable).

Just a warning, parts of it are very disturbing to watch.

 

[Epona]

I think it's one of both the best and most disturbing things I've ever watched - highly recommend it.
Some of it is difficult to watch, but it is so well done.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I think it's one of both the best and most disturbing things I've ever watched - highly recommend it.
Some of it is difficult to watch, but it is so well done.

This. It was incredibly well done. I was particularly impressed with how well it described the after effects of SA. Very brave look at how he contributed to the ongoing stalking. I felt so angry with him at first and then as more facts were revealed it all made sense.

 

[bellaozzydog]

My mate (breaking into acting) is in one of the scenes, I have a feeling it’s a sexual assault scene he described the intimacy counselling that went on, on set.

I started watching on Friday but fell asleep, I need to re-start and concentrate. Reviews are saying it’s interesting/nuanced/bleak/ground breaking so probably deserves my full attention

 

[T & P]

It's fantastically good. I usually avoid any such stuff as true crime documentaries or even fictional products with harrowing themes, but this is just so good I couldn't stop watching it.

 

[bellaozzydog]

My mate (breaking into acting) is in one of the scenes, I have a feeling it’s a sexual assault scene he described the intimacy counselling that went on, on set.

I started watching on Friday but fell asleep, I need to re-start and concentrate. Reviews are saying it’s interesting/nuanced/bleak/ground breaking so probably deserves my full attention

Eta

It’s one of those programs you need to watch in a darkened room otherwise you can’t see anything as the sets are all quite low light

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I've watched four episodes so far. It's getting more intense and harrowing with every episode. But so, so, well done.

 

[Numbers]

We’ve both finished early and are about to start this.

 

[Voley]

Mrs21 preferred watching a documentary about a grisly murder .

Possibly less harrowing.

Mrs V is big on that stuff too. Listens to podcasts while out walking.

Typical conversation in our house will go -

Me: "Fucking hell. You heard this about this Aussie mushroom poisoning thing?"

Her: "The case hinges on a plethora of essentially circumstantial, but compelling, evidence. Are we to believe that the mushrooms were removed to ensure the immediate family survived or was it merely a matter of culinary taste? The defendant did, after all, hospitalise herself ... but ... and it's a big but, why did the defendant then dispose of the airfryer? Are these the actions of an innocent woman ... or those of a calculated poisoner killing with malice aforethought?

Me: "Ah. You've heard about it, then?"

Her: "I have. The differences between the Australian and UK (and indeed US) justice systems pose interesting questions that may well influence the verdict ..."

(...continues ...)

 

[Numbers]

We’ve both finished early and are about to start this.

4 eps in, we’re having a quick breather before finishing the last 3.

Harrowingly great on many levels.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Last 3 eps later too!

 

[etnea]

Taxi driver was talking about this today. I watched maybe half of the first episode a wee while ago but felt really uncomfortable. Might return to it when I'm feeling a bit more robust.

 

[Numbers]

Great show, triggering at times but a brilliant watch.

Need some Master Chef to come down.

 

[Voley]

Yep. Just finished it and will now need something mindless to cleanse the mental palate. Incredible series. Left me feeling very dislocated and drained.

 

[scifisam]

It was the kind of experience of rape and sexual abuse that probably reflects how people deal with it better than most media I've seen. He was fucked up by it - the abuse by his stalker and what I won't spoiler - and reacted in fucked up, complex ways.

The only thing I disliked was that they miscast a woman who's virtually the same age as the actor as his middle-aged stalker. When it started with him being sorry for her the moment she walked in the bar, I wondered why - she just looked like an average late-30s woman to me, wearing quite a nice dress. And then they kept on going on about her being a middle-aged woman, despite her looking about the same age as her victim (which is because in real life they are only four years apart). She is an excellent actress, so she sold the role as it went on, but it was kinda Hollywood casting and distracted me every time her age or obvious unattractiveness was brought up.

That is a minor point. A show that talks about men being raped without pornifying or simplifying the victim or the experience... that's not minor.

 

[T & P]

It was the kind of experience of rape and sexual abuse that probably reflects how people deal with it better than most media I've seen. He was fucked up by it - the abuse by his stalker and what I won't spoiler - and reacted in fucked up, complex ways.

The only thing I disliked was that they miscast a woman who's virtually the same age as the actor as his middle-aged stalker. When it started with him being sorry for her the moment she walked in the bar, I wondered why - she just looked like an average late-30s woman to me, wearing quite a nice dress. And then they kept on going on about her being a middle-aged woman, despite her looking about the same age as her victim (which is because in real life they are only four years apart). She is an excellent actress, so she sold the role as it went on, but it was kinda Hollywood casting and distracted me every time her age or obvious unattractiveness was brought up.

That is a minor point. A show that talks about men being raped without pornifying or simplifying the victim or the experience... that's not minor.

Mmm… I don’t think that should be a consideration at all in this show. Whereas the general themes are very much based on his true life experience, he is on record saying he has made a number of fictionalised changes on purpose to various aspects of the story as well as the character his real life stalker is based on. And for the good reason of minimising any chance of making her identifiable to others or far more importantly causing her fresh mental anguish by portraying a real depiction of herself. Whether the age of her real life stalker matches that of the character or not is irrelevant. It was never meant to be a faithful biopic story.

 

[krtek a houby]

Tackled subject matter that isn't really tackled. Emotionally draining and brought back some unpleasant memories. The self loathing standing in the way of happiness was well realised and while it may be difficult watching and not everyone's cup of tea... everyone should watch it.

 

[girasol]

oh, i posted this on Netflix thread, but it should go here

I have started on Baby Reindeer.

The first episode was great. A cringe, horror, great, but I could see how easily he could let things happen, just by trying to be nice. Well, until he did that one thing.

I have only made it half way through the second one though. There are only so many times I can scream 'what the fuck are you doing, you fucking idiot?' at the telly and I have used up my quota in twelve minutes. And, does no one else work in that pub? Surely the owner would tell her to fuck off.

All is revealed. Everyone thinks they will walk away, that they won't be abused or stalked... Until you're right in it and you don't even know. I think that's what's so good about Baby Reindeer. It explains, very well, how & why it can happen. All of the messages shown on screen are the real, deranged messages, sent by the real "Martha".

Spoiler

If it was that simple no one would ever get stalked, groomed or drug raped by someone they knew.

To me it is just astonishing that he kept going back to his groomer's flat, if he never came back after the first time, or didn't take anymore drugs on subsequent times... blah blah. But he thought they were friends, he enjoyed having a successful mentor pay attention to him... I bet the dickhead who raped him didn't really think of it as rape either. In his twisted mind he'd have told himself it was consensual.

More astonishing! When Donny admitted to himself and the whole world he'd been groomed and raped he went back again! And the rapist had actually seen the video. And somehow they had a very civilised chat and agreed to work together? Does the rapist justify it as Donny exaggerating what happened and fictionalising their relationship? Is that the level of his denial? Or does he know what he did but also knows that he can just say it was all consensual?

If it hadn't happened in real life it would be hard to sympathise, but it did. And it's way too common. .

The big irony is that if none of this terrible shit happened to him he might have never have had a successful career.

 

[krtek a houby]

If it hadn't happened in real life it would be hard to sympathise, but it did. And it's way too common.

It does happen irl, sadly. And it can seriously impair your judgement and mental health.

 

[KatyF]

So I watched the whole lot in one go last night, which I'm not sure was wise and I think I'm still processing it. I'd heard episode 4 was going to be a tough one, but I thought that because I knew that bit of the story I would be alright. I was very wrong and I sobbed my eyes out during the whole episode.

 

[Numbers]

The way it ended was interesting.

 

[marty21]

Possibly less harrowing.

Mrs V is big on that stuff too. Listens to podcasts while out walking.

Typical conversation in our house will go -

Me: "Fucking hell. You heard this about this Aussie mushroom poisoning thing?"

Her: "The case hinges on a plethora of essentially circumstantial, but compelling, evidence. Are we to believe that the mushrooms were removed to ensure the immediate family survived or was it merely a matter of culinary taste? The defendant did, after all, hospitalise herself ... but ... and it's a big but, why did the defendant then dispose of the airfryer? Are these the actions of an innocent woman ... or those of a calculated poisoner killing with malice aforethought?

Me: "Ah. You've heard about it, then?"

Her: "I have. The differences between the Australian and UK (and indeed US) justice systems pose interesting questions that may well influence the verdict ..."

(...continues ...)

Mrs21 and her mate are constantly messaging about new cases - if I hear about one, she'd have heard about it months ago

 

[girasol]

Backlash... The dangerous fallout from Baby Reindeer: should Richard Gadd have been less honest about his abusers?

 

[Thora]

It was the kind of experience of rape and sexual abuse that probably reflects how people deal with it better than most media I've seen. He was fucked up by it - the abuse by his stalker and what I won't spoiler - and reacted in fucked up, complex ways.

The only thing I disliked was that they miscast a woman who's virtually the same age as the actor as his middle-aged stalker. When it started with him being sorry for her the moment she walked in the bar, I wondered why - she just looked like an average late-30s woman to me, wearing quite a nice dress. And then they kept on going on about her being a middle-aged woman, despite her looking about the same age as her victim (which is because in real life they are only four years apart). She is an excellent actress, so she sold the role as it went on, but it was kinda Hollywood casting and distracted me every time her age or obvious unattractiveness was brought up.

That is a minor point. A show that talks about men being raped without pornifying or simplifying the victim or the experience... that's not minor.

This was a problem with him playing himself wasn't it? He's basically too old to be playing himself 10 years ago - it would have been different if Donny was played by a 24 year old actor.

 

[belboid]

I finished it last night. Hard, but rewarding, work. I couldn't help feeling there must have been something that gave him that sense of self-hatred even before he was raped, but that may very well be just the version of himself that has now become almost inseparable from his abuse.

Very interesting to compare with I May Destroy You, as well, Michaela Cole's series about her sexual abuse. Not least because in both cases, they went back and worked with their rapist!

 

[T & P]

Backlash... The dangerous fallout from Baby Reindeer: should Richard Gadd have been less honest about his abusers?

Perhaps so-called internet sleuths should try to stop being their usual egotistic smug cunts for a change, trying to solve riddles nobody needed to know the answer to for internet bragging rights.

 

[belboid]

Perhaps so-called internet sleuths should try to stop being their usual egotistic smug cunts for a change, trying to solve riddles nobody needed to know the answer to for internet bragging rights.

They're not going to tho, are they? And it isn't really surprising, there were (seemingly) a lot of details included which make it seem quite easy to find the villains of the story. Any issue with that is down to Netflix tho, not Gadd. It's on them to make sure that the details are sufficiently blurred so that no one is identifiable.

 

[Silas Loom]

Perhaps so-called internet sleuths should try to stop being their usual egotistic smug cunts for a change, trying to solve riddles nobody needed to know the answer to for internet bragging rights.

Or, Netflix and Gadd really should have been more careful about disguising the identity of a real and troubled person.

We watched the whole thing and it’s reasonably gripping and well acted, but I prefer my unreliable narrators to be backed up by a trustworthy author.