Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[Saul Goodman]

by-product noun
by-prod·uct | \ ˈbī-ˌprä-(ˌ)dəkt \
variants: or byproduct
plural by-products or byproducts
Definition of by-product
1 : something produced in a usually industrial or biological process in addition to the principal product
Sulfured molasses is a by-product of sugar refining.

The demand for soybeans is currently tied to global meat consumption and is expected to grow, fuelled by Asia.

… the soybean has become an important source of human and animal protein, with 85% of its cultivation destined for animal feed and the remaining destined for direct human consumption.

https://www.iisd.org/system/files/2020-10/ssi-global-market-report-soybean.pdf

Where does it say the oil is a byproduct? Oh yeah, it doesn't, because it isn't.

 

[WouldBe]

by-product noun
by-prod·uct | \ ˈbī-ˌprä-(ˌ)dəkt \
variants: or byproduct
plural by-products or byproducts
Definition of by-product
1 : something produced in a usually industrial or biological process in addition to the principal product
Sulfured molasses is a by-product of sugar refining.

The demand for soybeans is currently tied to global meat consumption and is expected to grow, fuelled by Asia.

… the soybean has become an important source of human and animal protein, with 85% of its cultivation destined for animal feed and the remaining destined for direct human consumption.

https://www.iisd.org/system/files/2020-10/ssi-global-market-report-soybean.pdf

And the following sentence in that says "The 'king of beans' is mostly crushed into soy oil" so your own source clearly states the main product is soy oil. FFS

 

[Jeff Robinson]

No it doesn't. Farmers are stingy bastards, they won't buy a belt when a bit of bailer twine will hold their trousers up. You claim that soy cake earns more money than soy oil so who in their right mind would send soy for oil when they can make more money selling it for cattle feed. Makes as little sense as you do.

This is the idiocy you’re siding with now LBJ? I thought you were supposed be the sensible meat defender around here lol

 

[Jeff Robinson]

And the following sentence in that says "The 'king of beans' is mostly crushed into soy oil" so your own source clearly states the main product is soy oil. FFS

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Nero gets a bad rep but, as the legend has it, he only fiddled while Rome burned. If one of Urban’s slaughterhouse lovers had been emperor at the time, no doubt they would’ve been giving public speeches downplaying the threats of fires as the city was engulfed in flames.

 

[Saul Goodman]

This is the idiocy you’re siding with now LBJ? I thought you were supposed be the sensible meat defender around here lol

You used to be a fairly reasonable vegan. Now you're the reason people hate vegans.

 

[ddraig]

You used to be a fairly reasonable vegan. Now you're the reason people hate vegans.

How many are you speaking for?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nero gets a bad rep but, as the legend has it, he only fiddled while Rome burned. If one of Urban’s slaughterhouse lovers had been emperor at the time, no doubt they would’ve been giving public speeches downplaying the threats of fires as the city was engulfed in flames.

Are you even reading the thread? Loads of the 'slaughterhouse lovers' have been posting about the various ways farming systems need to change.

 

[WouldBe]

What part of your own posts do you not understand?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Are you even reading the thread? Loads of the 'slaughterhouse lovers' have been posting about the various ways farming systems need to change.

Keep slaughterhouses local. Riveting stuff.

 

[Aladdin]

Can I just ask ... the reduction/ elimination of red meat / dairy ... which is what the thread is about...
How does that work? It's a bit one sided saying "dont eat red meat and dont use dairy" cos really what you're talking about...will involve killing off not only an industry / livelihood but it will also mean eliminating beef and dairy animals surely? Or are the cows just not to have any more calves? Are you talking about killing off a species?

If the issue is about the methane that cattle produce then the only way to prevent them producing methane is how? Stop them being bred ? Kill them all off? Keep a few in a nature reserve?

Seems to me that the mass culling of cattle is what this is about.
Will it be all cattle? All beef or all dairy? Will the cull include calves?
Or are they all to be neutered?
What happens to all these dead animals then?
Or will it be a case that they just die off because they are not to be bred anymore? Cattle can live to quite a good age.

What is the end result that is required? No cattle? Half the current number?
And once there is no beef or dairy industry anymore what happens to all the cattle ? Where do they go?
Do they get to live out their lives somewhere? Or will they be rounded up? And killed?

 

[Funky_monks]

Can I just ask ... the reduction/ elimination of red meat / dairy ... which is what the thread is about...
How does that work? It's a bit one sided saying "dont eat red meat and dont use dairy" cos really what you're talking about...will involve killing off not only an industry / livelihood but it will also mean eliminating beef and dairy animals surely? Or are the cows just not to have any more calves? Are you talking about killing off a species?

If the issue is about the methane that cattle produce then the only way to prevent them producing methane is how? Stop them being bred ? Kill them all off? Keep a few in a nature reserve?

Seems to me that the mass culling of cattle is what this is about.
Will it be all cattle? All beef or all dairy? Will the cull include calves?
Or are they all to be neutered?
What happens to all these dead animals then?
Or will it be a case that they just die off because they are not to be bred anymore? Cattle can live to quite a good age.

What is the end result that is required? No cattle? Half the current number?
And once there is no beef or dairy industry anymore what happens to all the cattle ? Where do they go?
Do they get to live out their lives somewhere? Or will they be rounded up? And killed?

I believe that the vegan stance is to allow them to die off naturally. I'll leave you to decide what that entails.

A more interesting question might be "what happens to all this habitat capable of supporting ruminants if you remove the farmed ruminants"?

 

[kabbes]

I believe that the vegan stance is to allow them to die off naturally. I'll leave you to decide what that entails.

A more interesting question might be "what happens to all this habitat capable of supporting ruminants if you remove the farmed ruminants"?

What happened on this heathland when they stopped grazing sheep about 50 years ago is that trees took over anything that wasn’t managed, which isn’t a bad thing in itself but the loss of heathland was devastating for rare ground nesting birds like nightjars as well as whole ecosystems of insects, plants and birds. Then we gradually acquired more and more deer that moved through the “oh how cute” and “my there are a lot of deer” states to the “omigod deer plague” stage. Aside from other things, it has led to incredible tick numbers — if I don’t Bravecto the dog (which I really don’t like doing) I’m picking 20-30 a day off him.

I don’t personally know what the balance of all this is ecologically but those whose job it is to care for the environment — like the national trust rangers — certainly seem to see it as problematic. They’ve ended up introducing herds of semi-wild cows (which still end up being slaughtered at the end of the season) just to try to keep as much of the heathland as possible.

 

[Funky_monks]

What happened on this heathland when they stopped grazing sheep about 50 years ago is that trees took over anything that wasn’t managed, which isn’t a bad thing in itself but the loss of heathland was devastating for rare ground nesting birds like nightjars as well as whole ecosystems of insects, plants and birds. Then we gradually acquired more and more deer that moved through the “oh how cute” and “my there are a lot of deer” states to the “omigod deer plague” stage. Aside from other things, it has led to incredible tick numbers — if I don’t Bravecto the dog (which I really don’t like doing) I’m picking 20-30 a day off him.

I don’t personally know what the balance of all this is ecologically but those whose job it is to care for the environment — like the national trust rangers — certainly seem to see it as problematic. They’ve ended up introducing herds of semi-wild cows (which still end up being slaughtered at the end of the season) just to try to keep as much of the heathland as possible.

So, unsurprisingly, habitat suitable for ruminants had the farmed ruminants removed and was then colonised by some wild ruminants.
Funny how nature works, innit?

 

[platinumsage]

So, unsurprisingly, habitat suitable for ruminants had the farmed ruminants removed and was then colonised by some wild ruminants.
Funny how nature works, innit?

Then people suggest we should reintroduce wolves, as if deer being hunted by a pack of wolves is so much nicer than sheep being killed in abattoirs. This just shows veganism is not about actual animal suffering or climate change but about humans asserting their personal moral worldview on other humans.

 

[Spymaster]

Then people suggest we should reintroduce wolves, as if deer being hunted by a pack of wolves is so much nicer than sheep being killed in abattoirs. This just shows veganism is not about actual animal suffering or climate change but about humans asserting their personal moral worldview on other humans.

That’s always been he way on these boards. There are loads of vegans/vegetarians on here who just do their own thing and get on with it for their own reasons. The nutty, incoherent ones on this thread though are completely different. If they were serious about animal welfare they’d welcome and discuss opportunities to improve farming systems but instead they just want to point and shout at people who aren’t like them.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Then people suggest we should reintroduce wolves, as if deer being hunted by a pack of wolves is so much nicer than sheep being killed in abattoirs. This just shows veganism is not about actual animal suffering or climate change but about humans asserting their personal moral worldview on other humans.

Sometime tells me that the demise of sheep farming in Kabbes’ heathland 50 years ago had little to do with veganism and that people calling for wolf reintroduced are probably not vegan either.

 

[platinumsage]

Sometime tells me that the demise of sheep farming in Kabbes’ heathland 50 years ago had little to do with veganism and that people calling for wolf reintroduced are probably not vegan either.

Militant veganists are anti-wolf are they? If vegans really are concerned about animal suffering, perhaps they should start with eliminating crows, who I've seen peck out the eyes of live baby blackbirds.

If on the other hand, veganists are only concerned about animal suffering inflicted by humans, surely wolves are a better option than humans with rifles?

 

[Cid]

Sometime tells me that the demise of sheep farming in Kabbes’ heathland 50 years ago had little to do with veganism and that people calling for wolf reintroduced are probably not vegan either.

What do you suggest?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Militant veganists are anti-wolf are they? If vegans really are concerned about animal suffering, perhaps they should start with eliminating crows, who I've seen peck out the eyes of live baby blackbirds.

If on the other hand, veganists are only concerned about animal suffering inflicted by humans, surely wolves are a better option than humans with rifles?

Yes, we hate wolfs and baby blackbirds. But how did you find out? I hope there hasn’t been another bloody leaked e-Mail from vegan HQ.

 

[Spymaster]

What do you suggest?

No more buRgerZ

 

[Jeff Robinson]

What do you suggest?

Incredible thing I discovered recently - if you rub a walnut (or similarly oily nut, like pecan or macadamia nut), over scratches in wood, after a couple of minutes, the natural oils in the nuts will seep into the wood, helping to heal unsightly marks. Best life hack!

 

[Cid]

Incredible thing I discovered recently - if you rub a walnut (or similarly oily nut, like pecan or macadamia nut), over scratches in wood, after a couple of minutes, the natural oils in the nuts will seep into the wood, helping to heal unsightly marks. Best life hack!

That would just be concealing the scratch by applying oil. It's not healing, although oils will help keep the wood in good condition (I would suggest it's a bit impractical rubbing walnuts over your entire kitchen table though, just buy some oil).

I do actually want to know what your ideal vegan world looks like...

 

[Poot]

The world is not going to go vegan overnight so there is little point discussing that eventuality.

Hth.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I do actually want to know what your ideal vegan world looks like...

 

[Cid]

Hth.

No, not really.

 

[platinumsage]

Yes, we hate wolfs and baby blackbirds. But how did you find out? I hope there hasn’t been another bloody leaked e-Mail from vegan HQ.

It was in the same section of the Veganist pamphlet that proposed killing all the elephants and giraffes due to the amount of methane they produce.

 

[Funky_monks]

Militant veganists are anti-wolf are they? If vegans really are concerned about animal suffering, perhaps they should start with eliminating crows, who I've seen peck out the eyes of live baby blackbirds.

If on the other hand, veganists are only concerned about animal suffering inflicted by humans, surely wolves are a better option than humans with rifles?

If no wolves then what?
Nature doesn't offer pleasant deaths - disease or starvation seem to be the options, and yeah, when they collapse of either of these things the crows tend to have their eyes and after that the scavengers start on the soft parts

 

[Jeff Robinson]

It was in the same section of the Veganist pamphlet that proposed killing all the elephants and giraffes due to the amount of methane they produce.

That was a typo tbf, instead of ‘elephants and giraffes’ it should have read ‘homo sapiens’.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What happened on this heathland when they stopped grazing sheep about 50 years ago is that trees took over anything that wasn’t managed, which isn’t a bad thing in itself but the loss of heathland was devastating for rare ground nesting birds like nightjars as well as whole ecosystems of insects, plants and birds. Then we gradually acquired more and more deer that moved through the “oh how cute” and “my there are a lot of deer” states to the “omigod deer plague” stage. Aside from other things, it has led to incredible tick numbers — if I don’t Bravecto the dog (which I really don’t like doing) I’m picking 20-30 a day off him.

I don’t personally know what the balance of all this is ecologically but those whose job it is to care for the environment — like the national trust rangers — certainly seem to see it as problematic. They’ve ended up introducing herds of semi-wild cows (which still end up being slaughtered at the end of the season) just to try to keep as much of the heathland as possible.

The woods near you are named after deer, (only found that out recently), but they were extensively hunted cos they taste good and that.