Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[littlebabyjesus]

There's a lot of odd thinking on this thread. For a start, there's no such thing as places where you can 'only graze sheep'. If you didn't graze sheep the land would not simply disappear but would be a haven of various grasses, heathers, hardy shrubs and forest, attracting all sorts of animals and insects. Livestock are not the only animals that fertilise the soil, reducing the need for chemical fertiliser. I think we can all be a bit human-focused about this stuff sometimes and forget that land needs stewardship rather than complete control at all times.

It bothers me that people say, 'we just want to find a decent way of farming more environmentally' but as soon as you say, well, we could try limiting the demand for meat and returning some of the land to nature, everyone just closes their ears. I'm also in favour of sustainable farming but insisting that livestock are centre stage all the time is not helpful. Finding other more sustainable sources of protein has to be a priority.

Yep fair point. Rewilding is also an issue to consider. In general, issues to do with biodiversity are extremely important.

 

[platinumsage]

We have seven billion people to feed. Grazing livestock in areas that would only otherwise be “rewilded” is an important contribution to that. Otherwise all those Welsh/NZ lamb calories would have to come from new areas of arable crops.

 

[Poot]

We have seven billion people to feed. Grazing livestock in areas that would only otherwise be “rewilded” is an important contribution to that. Otherwise all those Welsh/NZ lamb calories would have to come from new areas of arable crops.

A simple biomass pyramid shows that calories come more efficiently from plants than animals, which takes considerably less land. That's why we need to look at more efficient sources of protein.

 

[editor]

You have a blind spot to the effect of ddraig's content-free bullshit on these threads.

That doesn't answer my question. You're just repeating the insult.

So what is 'vego-fascism' and how does it manifest and impact on the lives of the posters here?

 

[Pickman's model]

how did you get from this

There's almost certainly more meat eaters shoving avocados down their throats than vegans.

to this?

Awesome comparison dude. Still it's great to see the Return Of The Avocado. The foodstuff that more meat eaters than veggies eat.

Blistering argument!

what persuaded you that it was no longer 'almost certainly more' but indeed definitely more?

 

[editor]

how did you get from this

to this?

what persuaded you that it was no longer 'almost certainly more' but indeed definitely more?

I thought about it a bit longer and compared the amount of vegans with meat eaters. Feel free to quibble away if that's how you get your kicks.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought about it a bit longer and compared the amount of vegans with meat eaters. Feel free to quibble away if that's how you get your kicks.

i thought it might be something as world beating as that

 

[Spymaster]

.

 

[Spymaster]

What's so harmful about vegigan?

It's a great word and a perfect portmanteau that helpfully refers to both vegetarians and vegans.

I really don't see why anyone would take issue with it.

 

[Saul Goodman]

What's so hurtful to you about carnist then?

What's so harmful about vegigan?

you really want to start that shite up again?

Classic

 

[platinumsage]

Perhaps the thread title could be changed to "Is choosing carefully what you eat the ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth?" to stimulate some reasoned discussion without getting sidetracked by all this veganism/cruelty/carnist nonsense?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That doesn't answer my question. You're just repeating the insult.

So what is 'vego-fascism' and how does it manifest and impact on the lives of the posters here?

I'm not repeating the insult. I'm pointing out that you don't see the effect of ddraig's content-free, insult-laden bullshit on these threads. It appears that you don't get where the insult comes from because you're blind to the behaviour of people you deem to be on 'your side'. The fact that we're all forced onto 'sides' by the polarising nature of the debate, as framed primarily by you, btw, is one of the biggest problems here.

One of the many ironies of this is that ddraig is just about the most fragile poster here, liable to fly off the handle at any perceived slur. Indeed he works really quite hard to find offence. 'growing sheep', for instance. If he is a vegan policeman, he is very much from the detective-boy mould.

 

[editor]

I'm not repeating the insult. I'm pointing out that you don't see the effect of ddraig's content-free, insult-laden bullshit on these threads. It appears that you don't get where the insult comes from because you're blind to the behaviour of people you deem to be on 'your side'. The fact that we're all forced onto 'sides' by the polarising nature of the debate, as framed primarily by you, btw, is one of the biggest problems here.

You're just insulting him again and refusing to explain what a 'vego-fascist is.

Strange how you're apparently fine with Saul Goodman's ever-increasingly bizarre sidetracks, strawmen and fleeting obsession with random foodstuffs though. Seems that you're blind to all that when they're of a pro meat persuasion.

 

[ddraig]

Classic

Why?
It's not "hurtful" it's just fucking pathetic
Still not a single post of mine where i've told you what to eat, yet again

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You're just insulting him again and refusing to explain what a 'vego-fascist is.

Strange how you're apparently fine with Saul Goodman's ever-increasingly bizarre sidetracks, strawmen and fleeting obsession with random foodstuffs though. Seems that you're blind to all that when they're of a pro meat persuasion.

Go and have a count of the number of times ddraig has insulted me. Then count how many times I have insulted him.

You're way off the mark here.

 

[editor]

Perhaps the thread title could be changed to "Is choosing carefully what you eat the ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth?" to stimulate some reasoned discussion without getting sidetracked by all this veganism/cruelty/carnist nonsense?

No, the title - and the science behind it - is quite accurate, even if it might make you uncomfortable.

 

[ddraig]

I'm not repeating the insult. I'm pointing out that you don't see the effect of ddraig's content-free, insult-laden bullshit on these threads. It appears that you don't get where the insult comes from because you're blind to the behaviour of people you deem to be on 'your side'. The fact that we're all forced onto 'sides' by the polarising nature of the debate, as framed primarily by you, btw, is one of the biggest problems here.

One of the many ironies of this is that ddraig is just about the most fragile poster here, liable to fly off the handle at any perceived slur. Indeed he works really quite hard to find offence. 'growing sheep', for instance. If he is a vegan policeman, he is very much from the detective-boy mould.

Your "content" is just pseudo spouting like you do on many threads, until you get called on something and go and hide until you think people have forgotten

 

[editor]

Go and have a count of the number of times ddraig has insulted me. Then count how many times I have insulted him.

You're way off the mark here.

I've got waaaaaay better things to do with my time thanks, but it would be nice if you explained what a 'vego-fascist' is and how their behaviour impacts on the boards and other posters in a meaningful way.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've got waaaaaay better things to do with my time thanks, but it would be nice if you explained what a 'vego-fascist' is and how their behaviour impact on the boards in a meaningful way.

I didn't use the phrase. I merely took advantage of it to point out to you that you have a complete blind spot wrt ddraig, which you do.

Over the course of many threads, it's really become fucking tiresome.

 

[editor]

I didn't use the phrase. I merely took advantage of it to point out to you that you have a complete blind spot wrt ddraig, which you do.

So you 'take advantage' of insulting phrases linked with fascism when you don't even know what they mean? Well, that's a classy move, alright,

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah right. Just ignore the point being made. As usual.

 

[platinumsage]

I used that phrase in part to highlight ddraig's ridiculousness, and I've already stated how their behaviour impacts the boards in post 1433, a statement that is certainly supported by the lack of meaningful discussion since I posted it.

 

[ddraig]

Go and have a count of the number of times ddraig has insulted me. Then count how many times I have insulted him.

You're way off the mark here.

"miss, MISS, he started it miss"

 

[Spymaster]

Classic

It's like a parallel universe isn't it?

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's like a parallel universe isn't it?

Full of self-awareness black holes.

 

[editor]

I used that phrase in part to highlight ddraig's ridiculousness, and I've already stated how their behaviour impacts the boards in post 1433, a statement that is certainly supported by the lack of meaningful discussion since I posted it.

You still haven't explained what 'vego-fascism' is, so could you do so now, please?

Fascism is not something I'd accuse someone of being lightly, so I want to see how you reached that conclusion.

For reference:

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

 

[platinumsage]

My choice of that term to highlight ddraig’s ridiculousness took inspiration from the concept of Malthusian eco-fascism and the agrarian romanticism that is often found in the minds of extreme veganists.

 

[ddraig]

My choice of that term to highlight ddraig’s ridiculousness took inspiration from the concept of Malthusian eco-fascism and the agrarian romanticism that is often found in the minds of extreme veganists.

Pretty pathetic
Or if you're so sure you can you back it up with any of my posts.....

 

[editor]

My choice of that term to highlight ddraig’s ridiculousness took inspiration from the concept of Malthusian eco-fascism and the agrarian romanticism that is often found in the minds of extreme veganists.

Heavy accusations. Could you give some examples of "extreme veganism" and "eco-fascism" in this thread please?

Otherwise it just looks like you're throwing around random unpleasant accusations and insults, which some posters seem happy to parrot without even understanding what you meant, so it would be good to clear it up.

 

[Pickman's model]

My choice of that term to highlight ddraig’s ridiculousness took inspiration from the concept of Malthusian eco-fascism and the agrarian romanticism that is often found in the minds of extreme veganists.

perhaps you could enlarge on malthus's eco-fascism, which is an aspect of his thought i haven't encountered. being as he died 90-odd years before mussolini took power