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Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

WouldBe said:
That water is rain so shouldn't count. It's not as though we're taking it out of reservoirs to water the fields.
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If it doesn't rain, that's exactly what you have to do if you don't want to lose your crops. That's the exact issue with almond farming in California.
 
Saul Goodman said:
Food. It takes a massive amount of water to make out food. When it takes up to 12 litres of water to produce a single almond, it soon adds up.
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It might if you believe the figures that are being bandied about on here. If you grow your own food you'll see it takes nowhere near as much water as is being made out.
 
WouldBe said:
That water is rain so shouldn't count. It's not as though we're taking it out of reservoirs to water the fields.
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But that's exactly what is happening. The water being used for, say, almonds, is water that would/could otherwise be used for drinking water, and when a single Californian almond uses 12 litres of water, and around 2 1/4 billion pounds of almonds are grown a year... I can't be arsed to do the maths... actually, I will. Seems it's around 480 almonds a pound, so multiply 480 by 2.25 billion is one trillion and 35 billion almonds. Multiply that by 12 litres is... too many litres of water for my head (or the planet) to handle.
 
Just watching another docu. They're making noodles from mung beans, and the vast majority of the mung bean goes to animal feed. This doesn't mean the mung beans were grown to feed animals. It means the waste isn't being wasted.
 
Saul Goodman said:
But that's exactly what is happening. The water being used for, say, almonds, is water that would/could otherwise be used for drinking water, and when a single Californian almond uses 12 litres of water, and around 2 1/4 billion pounds of almonds are grown a year... I can't be arsed to do the maths... actually, I will. Seems it's around 480 almonds a pound, so multiply 480 by 2.25 billion is one trillion and 35 billion almonds. Multiply that by 12 litres is... too many litres of water for my head (or the planet) to handle.
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Better chop all the trees down then as the trees will use that water wether the nuts are eaten or not just as with all the acorns or horse chestnuts etc will use a similar amount of water and the nuts aren't edible.
 
WouldBe said:
Better chop all the trees down then as the trees will use that water wether the nuts are eaten or not just as with all the acorns or horse chestnuts etc will use a similar amount of water and the nuts aren't edible.
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Well no, not really. If the trees don't get enough water, they just won't produce almonds. They will conserve water. It's quite normal for plants to go into crisis mode during tough periods and 'shut up shop' until better times come around.

But the imperative to produce drives the need to have a crop every year. It's not a disaster for an almond tree not to produce almonds for a year or two. It is a disaster for an almond farmer.
 
WouldBe said:
Better chop all the trees down then as the trees will use that water wether the nuts are eaten or not just as with all the acorns or horse chestnuts etc will use a similar amount of water and the nuts aren't edible.
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Due to the climate needs, almonds cost a fortune in water, and Californian almonds are, I think, the worst culprit, and I'm all for doing away with them completely. But the almond industry is so big that bribery/lobbying means they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
 
Saul Goodman said:
Food. It takes a massive amount of water to make our food. When it takes up to 12 litres of water to produce a single almond, it soon adds up.
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Why the fuck are you still going on about almonds? Why don't you take a look at how much water is consumed by the meat industry?

A whopping 106 gallons of water goes into making just one ounce of beef. By comparison, just about 23 gallons are needed for an ounce of almonds (about 23 nuts), the Los Angeles Times reported recently. So stop with the almond shaming, and start eating less red meat.
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1625443579778.png
Those arrows point to "forages" and alfalfa — crops raised almost exclusively for feeding farm animals. In California, the largest milk-producing state in the US, the vast majority of these animals are cows. "Forages" include the fields that get watered for cows to graze on and the corn and other irrigated crops that later get churned into cow feed.

Both of these use way more water than the almonds and pistachios shown near the top of the chart.
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www.businessinsider.com

One chart sums up the real problem in the California drought — and it isn't almonds

Enough with the almond-shaming, already.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
Saul Goodman said:
The point I'm making is that meat eaters don't tend to tell others what they should and shouldn't eat, whereas a lot of vegans seem to make it their sole purpose in life, despite their own diets and lifestyles being at least as bad for the planet.
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Could you name all the posters in this thread "telling you" what to eat or name anyone who has made it their 'make it their sole purpose in life'?

Thanks.
 
editor said:
I thought you were droning on and on and on about almonds.

But why should I care where your meat comes from, and how does that relate to the huge resources needed to supply the global meat industry?

But seeing as you now want to talk about Ireland: ‘Dairy and livestock farms in Ireland can be compared to oil production’
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You seem to be trying to have this both ways here. First, you claim that almond production is nothing to do with you as you don't consume many almonds, but then you seem to want to lay the sins of the global meat industry on someone who only consumes certain kinds of meat.

That's a really weak way of arguing. And like Saul, I don't really see what point you're trying to make. You seem to be studiously ignoring all the points funky monks has been making about the kinds of farming that are possible in different places.

Like Saul, I'd be very interested in a discussion that centred around how we could and should be farming and how we can and must move away from industrialised farming methods, which includes plants as well as animals, but you don't seem to want to have that discussion. Not really. You just seem to want to shove a bunch of half-digested stats at us.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
You seem to be trying to have this both ways here. First, you claim that almond production is nothing to do with you as you don't consume many almonds, but then you seem to want to lay the sins of the global meat industry on someone who only consumes certain kinds of meat.

That's a really weak way of arguing. And like Saul, I don't really see what point you're trying to make. You seem to be studiously ignoring all the points funky monks has been making about the kinds of farming that are possible in different places.

Like Saul, I'd be very interested in a discussion that centred around how we could and should be farming and how we can and must move away from industrialised farming methods, which includes plants as well as animals, but you don't seem to want to have that discussion. Not really. You just seem to want to shove a bunch of half-digested stats at us.
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No, I've been trying hard not to make the discussion centre entirely around Saul's claimed (and unverifiable) diet.

Because that would be ridiculous when we're talking about a global issue, as the thread title makes emphatically clear.
 
Saul Goodman said:
But that's exactly what is happening. The water being used for, say, almonds, is water that would/could otherwise be used for drinking water, and when a single Californian almond uses 12 litres of water, and around 2 1/4 billion pounds of almonds are grown a year... I can't be arsed to do the maths... actually, I will. Seems it's around 480 almonds a pound, so multiply 480 by 2.25 billion is one trillion and 35 billion almonds. Multiply that by 12 litres is... too many litres of water for my head (or the planet) to handle.
Click to expand...
tbh much of california is based on unsustainable water consumption - don't know if you've read mike davis' 'ecology of fear', but i think you'd find it very interesting
 
editor said:
No, I've been trying hard not to make the discussion centre entirely around Saul's claimed (and unverifiable) diet.

Because that would be ridiculous when we're talking about a global issue, as the thread title makes emphatically clear.
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yeh the thread title makes it clear it's about individual actions. a global issue sure. but individual actions to reduce one's own impact.
 
Pickman's model said:
yeh the thread title makes it clear it's about individual actions. a global issue sure. but individual actions to reduce one's own impact.
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If you want to chat about Saul's claimed virtuous diet and his fascination with almonds, feel free, but I pretty much feel that it's been talked about enough already.
 
editor said:
No, I've been trying hard not to make the discussion centre entirely around Saul's claimed (and unverifiable) diet.

Because that would be ridiculous when we're talking about a global issue, as the thread title makes emphatically clear.
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We're talking about a global issue, but the issue isn't necessarily what the thread title makes it out to be. I don't think you characterise the problem correctly. I'm not the only one. People who know a lot more about farming than me don't think you characterise the problem correctly either.

'How should we farm?' is the interesting question for me. You don't seem to have much to say about it, though.
 
25% of the environmental impact is due to meat for pet food. Getting rid of your cats and dogs would be a quick win.
 
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