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avaaz.org .. interesting global protest group

I'm on their mailing list, and they're quite frequent with their movements. I'm fairly selective about those I add my name to, but as I understand it they hold a reasonable amount of clout all things considered.
 
MoveOn.org are behind them, IIRC. Very mainstream, Democratic Party supporters, but potentially quite effective. They pitch their campaigns to obtain the broadest level of support rather than be ideologically perfect, so don't expect anything very radical.
 
MoveOn.org are behind them, IIRC. Very mainstream, Democratic Party supporters, but potentially quite effective. They pitch their campaigns to obtain the broadest level of support rather than be ideologically perfect, so don't expect anything very radical.

Indeed, I'm not always sure what I think of them as they are a professionally-run organisation who inform their members what the important issues are - not the ideal way to work in my opinion - but I've seen too much pointless, ineffective radicaller-than-thou posturing to diss them just for that when they are able to mobilise so many people. They don't want a revolution but then nor did many people who campaigned for women to get the vote - doesn't mean you can't do some good.
 
Indeed, I'm not always sure what I think of them as they are a professionally-run organisation who inform their members what the important issues are - not the ideal way to work in my opinion - but I've seen too much pointless, ineffective radicaller-than-thou posturing to diss them just for that when they are able to mobilise so many people. They don't want a revolution but then nor did many people who campaigned for women to get the vote - doesn't mean you can't do some good.
fair play .. is there a doubt though anywhere that seeing as they are funded by the democratic machine and presumably all those wierd foundations day to day lobbying and camapaigning US politics is funded by ( am i right in this not sure ??? ) and indirectly then the likes of soros .. is there then a conspiracy suggestion they are psuhing people away from more direct democracy ideas?? .. not dig .. question ..
 
reveling how these 'internationalist', but fundamentally elitist 'groups' attact more attention on here and elsewhere ( the LL group thread is disappearing) than genuine but non sexy attempt by british leftists to try to revive the tradition and rebuild community, the latter, something AVAAZ can never do, no matter how dynamic!
 
Yeah. They're all over this place. That's how come durruti knew nothing about them until he saw some weird green helmets yesterday.

*yawn
 
It was in response to treelover's stuck record. Didn't quote her as I was posting directly below. (I was paraphrasing you from another thread.)
 
It was in response to treelover's stuck record. Didn't quote her as I was posting directly below. (I was paraphrasing you from another thread.)
no i still don't get what you are saying about me .. are you saying i should have heard of this group?
 
no i still don't get what you are saying about me .. are you saying i should have heard of this group?
Only if treelover's assertion was correct. So no, there's no reason at all you should have heard of them. :)
 
I'm on their mailing list after joining a group on Facebook about the Burma monks' protest. One particular campaign struck me as a little bit, well, shit - I got an email telling me we only had 24 hours to sign an emergency petition to get Mugabe out of power in Zimbabwe... Didn't work did it?
 
Only if treelover's assertion was correct. So no, there's no reason at all you should have heard of them. :)
ok sorry was being dim .. i get what you were saying now :) sorry for confusion :)

although in fairness to TL we've already got a 4 people on here saying they are members/on the mailing list
 
I'm one of those 3.4 million members.
hi tangent .. can you tell us why, and why you think this kind of politics is good, guessing you were with them on saturday? and why you maybe think it is more useful than something like IWCA or LL as you appear to though this is a guess on my behalf so apologies if i am wrong ..
 
although in fairness to TL we've already got a 4 people on here saying they are members/on the mailing list
5 now.


I view them as a very useful counter initiative to the zionist / neocon email lists that have been enabling them to punch well above their weight in the old letter writing / newspaper website comments page / message board / blog stakes.

Think I signed up via a mass email campaign protesting the war in lebanon, which I think had got at least several hundred thousand, possibly several million people signed up to having sent off protest emails from all over the world.

Not done much about their email updates since tbh, but can't remember one that I've particularly disagreed with.

this is their core team btw
Ricken Patel – Co-Founder and Executive Director (Canada)
Paul Hilder – Campaign Director (UK)
Ben Wikler – Campaign Director (US)
Alice Jay - Campaign Director (Spain)
Luis Morago - Campaign Director (Spain)
Brett Solomon - Campaign Director (Australia)
Milena Berry – Chief Technical Officer (Bulgaria)
Paula Brufman – Campaigner (Argentina)
Iain Keith – Campaigner (UK)
Graziela Tanaka – Campaigner (Brazil)
Pascal Vollenweider – Campaigner (Switzerland)

so, yes MoveOn helped found it, and probably provided much of the operational model for it, but it seems relatively international in it's make up.
 
5 now.

I view them as a very useful counter initiative to the zionist / neocon email lists that have been enabling them to punch well above their weight in the old letter writing / newspaper website comments page / message board / blog stakes.

Think I signed up via a mass email campaign protesting the war in lebanon, which I think had got at least several hundred thousand, possibly several million people signed up to having sent off protest emails from all over the world.

Not done much about their email updates since tbh, but can't remember one that I've particularly disagreed with.

so, yes MoveOn helped found it, and probably provided much of the operational model for it, but it seems relatively international in it's make up.
hmm

clearly the campaign re israel didn't work .. i guess my question is, does it empower and spark, create, help and support self organisation or does it disempower but creating a feeling of empowerment where there is none?
 
hi tangent .. can you tell us why, and why you think this kind of politics is good, guessing you were with them on saturday? and why you maybe think it is more useful than something like IWCA or LL as you appear to though this is a guess on my behalf so apologies if i am wrong ..
it's horses for course isn't it?

LL / IWCA have the potential to change things for the better mostly on a very small scale, local level, with the vague possibility of at some point becoming relevant at a national level, but seem to (possibly sensibly) have set themselves low level, but realistic targets for what they aim to do... eg. LL
Left Luggage has been formed by a small, independent group of community organisers and trade union shop-stewards in the UK. This blog is an attempt to initiate a discussion within the British Left around strategic issues, including questioning some of our most fundamental organising principles. We believe addressing these issues is imperative if the Left is to become a significant political force in the near future.

We are not a political party or organisation. In the long run, our ambition is to develop working class self-organisation and to assist in reorienting the Left towards this goal. We also aim to stress the importance of fostering a culture of robust self-criticism and internal democracy. Obviously, these are huge tasks. At present, we are merely a small group attempting to initiate and engage in constructive debate around these issues. In doing so, we hope to build links and share ideas and experiences with others on the Left in a fraternal and non-sectarian manner

AVAAZ on the other hand is an international organisation that has rapidly gained membership (or active mailing list) of 3.2 million people, which aims to essentially be an enabling organisation for co-ordinating global protest responses to situations that require a global response, largely via the medium of the web. For me it's one simple way of putting into practice the old RTS slogan of 'our resistance will be as transnational as capital'... something that LL and IWCA have zero chance of achieving, nor should they particularly aim to IMO.
 
hmm

clearly the campaign re israel didn't work .. i guess my question is, does it empower and spark, create, help and support self organisation or does it disempower but creating a feeling of empowerment where there is none?
define 'didn't work'.

Yes it didn't put an end to the several generations long conflict between Israel, it's neighbours and the Palestinians, but that'd have been a pretty unrealistic goal. As a high profile part of an overall effort to bipass the Zionist media in Israel, and messages of support from US and European leaders that don't reflect the views of their populations, and to show the true level of international disgust at some of Israels actions, and combat the increasingly effective international Zionist lobby... it could be argued as being relatively effective IMO.

here's what Avaaz say about their campaign in 2008... don't think they're attempting to claim full credit for the ceasefire, more saying that they helped lay the groundwork for swinging public opinion behind the peace talks / ceasefire.

Avaaz members have also funded innovative billboard campaigns in Jerusalem and newspaper ad campaigns in major Israeli and Palestinian papers, signed more than 375,000 names to petitions urging peace talks, an end to the blockade on humanitarian aid to Gaza, and a ceasefire with Hamas. These petitions have been delivered directly to key decision-makers in Israel and around the world. In May and June, Avaaz members funded a major online and offline ad campaign, which was seen by an estimated 1 million Israelis, calling for a Gaza ceasefire. Hamas and Israel began a ceasefire in the Gaza strip on 19 June, 2008.
 
reveling how these 'internationalist', but fundamentally elitist 'groups' attact more attention on here and elsewhere ( the LL group thread is disappearing) than genuine but non sexy attempt by british leftists to try to revive the tradition and rebuild community, the latter, something AVAAZ can never do, no matter how dynamic!

That seems a bit overly hostile treelover. I think you/we should welcome both groups. Both seem a bit more open than other initiatives and that can only be a good thing.
 
and why you maybe think it is more useful than something like IWCA or LL as you appear to though this is a guess on my behalf so apologies if i am wrong ..
It's not an either or, is it? If you sign up to avaaz, you'll get e-mails about stuff and you can go sign the latest petition or send an e-mail if you want. That's it. It's very top down, very little effort, and not a substitute for any other form of activism.
 
It's not an either or, is it? If you sign up to avaaz, you'll get e-mails about stuff and you can go sign the latest petition or send an e-mail if you want. That's it. It's very top down, very little effort, and not a substitute for any other form of activism.
fair enough .. but a criticism would then be that people don't do the other stuff as they are doing this?
 
define 'didn't work'.

Yes it didn't put an end to the several generations long conflict between Israel, it's neighbours and the Palestinians, but that'd have been a pretty unrealistic goal. As a high profile part of an overall effort to bipass the Zionist media in Israel, and messages of support from US and European leaders that don't reflect the views of their populations, and to show the true level of international disgust at some of Israels actions, and combat the increasingly effective international Zionist lobby... it could be argued as being relatively effective IMO.

here's what Avaaz say about their campaign in 2008... don't think they're attempting to claim full credit for the ceasefire, more saying that they helped lay the groundwork for swinging public opinion behind the peace talks / ceasefire.
ok yes thats fair enough pov
 
it's horses for course isn't it?

LL / IWCA have the potential to change things for the better mostly on a very small scale, local level, with the vague possibility of at some point becoming relevant at a national level, but seem to (possibly sensibly) have set themselves low level, but realistic targets for what they aim to do... eg. LL


AVAAZ on the other hand is an international organisation that has rapidly gained membership (or active mailing list) of 3.2 million people, which aims to essentially be an enabling organisation for co-ordinating global protest responses to situations that require a global response, largely via the medium of the web. For me it's one simple way of putting into practice the old RTS slogan of 'our resistance will be as transnational as capital'... something that LL and IWCA have zero chance of achieving, nor should they particularly aim to IMO.
look i think these things could happily co exist .. as i say to ymu i guess the criticism is these things appear to be more worthy/useful/immediate so people do not do the fundamental local stuff that we need ..
 
fair enough .. but a criticism would then be that people don't do the other stuff as they are doing this?
Well that depends. If they're not going to do more than click a link in an e-mail every couple of weeks, then they probably weren't going to be terribly effective as activists anyway.

I think one of the ideas of having this huge umbrella organisation that covers many different issues, broadly of the centre-left, is to combine forces. People who are interested in Palestine are likely also going to care about Burma, and with minimal effort can learn about the situation and lend their voices to campaigns which they might not ordinarily come across.

In some ways, whether or not it leads to more active involvement is irrelevant. No doubt sometimes it does, but avaaz is about numbers on petitions and fund-raising to place political advertisments in relevant sections of the press. It's effectively a global centre-left lobby.

I said "umbrella organisation", but it really isn't as far as I can see. It does have roots in a number of other organisations, but it doesn't seem to join forces with independent campaigns much. It would be very powerful if it used its reach to bring people's attention to the grassroots stuff that is happening around these issues. So far it seems to pursue its own line, which is broadly similar to that of other campaigns, if often less radical, but offers no direct route to finding these other campaigns.

I think it could be a lot better, but I don't think it's worth building a conspiracy theory around. The power of any individual campaign that they run is determined by the proportion of their membership that click the link or donate. If it's going to satisfy the activist urges of someone who signs up to it, they were never going to be much of an activist anyway. It's a good way of pooling resources to try and effect changes on some issues of concern to the left, and that's not a bad thing.
 
look i think these things could happily co exist .. as i say to ymu i guess the criticism is these things appear to be more worthy/useful/immediate so people do not do the fundamental local stuff that we need ..
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think people would be doing the local stuff anyway. The reasons for that would deserve a thread in themselves but I think they relate to the whole individualistic thrust of society and the 'education' we go through at the hands of schools, media etc in terms of defining our place in society. For instance, what is the purpose of education? To get a good career, according to them. Not: to contribute to your community. Never mind that the community pays for your education - you don't owe anything back. You only owe it to yourself to do as well as you can for yourself.

Compared to all that stuff, I think the actions of a few internationalist liberal organisations would only have a very, very small effect on local organising, if they have any at all.

Meanwhile they can also do things (putting ads in Israeli newspapers) that would be very difficult for locally-based organisations to do anyway. So there could be a role for them alongside local organising too.
 
look i think these things could happily co exist .. as i say to ymu i guess the criticism is these things appear to be more worthy/useful/immediate so people do not do the fundamental local stuff that we need ..
I'm not really convinced that sending a quick email in response to one of the avaaz call outs, or sending them some money, or signing a petition every so often, or even joining an AVAAZ block on a protest march is going to in any way impact on whether or not people are going to get involved in more local activities.

in fact I think it's strength is the fact that it requires minimum effort and input from it's supporters to take action, meaning it can attract a membership of millions worldwide. If it started demanding too much of people's time then it's membership would drop off, and it'd become less effective... so IMO it should fit quite nicely with local campaigns that involve less people and require more time and effort commitments from their members.
 
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