Assange to face extradition

[JimW]

I have looked at every case ever tried in Sweden, they have never prosecuted a case on the same evidential basis.


That is, of course, bollocks, but it is what would be required to fulfill your request. As it is all but impossible to do so, it is a wholly unreasonable request. YOU claim that similar cases have been tried - show me.

Don't feel the need. Clear from the way the nit-picking has been conducted that it's not seen as unusual to want to proceed based on these allegations, as it's not been raised in his defence when ever other jot and tittle has. And nothing's going to convince you either way. But I shall have a read around and report back if I find (unless it doesn't support my case ).

 

[belboid]

belboid How is Assange's personal freedom etc more directly beneficial to the working class than holding him accountal for rape/consent issues?

Because it isn't about individuals' personal freedoms, or individuals' personal injuries. It is about state power and corruption. It is about how the state - the most powerful state in the world - deals with its enemies.

 

[belboid]

Don't feel the need. Clear from the way the nit-picking has been conducted that it's not seen as unusual to want to proceed based on these allegations, as it's not been raised in his defence when ever other jot and tittle has. And nothing's going to convince you either way. But I shall have a read around and report back if I find (unless it doesn't support my case ).

It HAS been raised, so your point is wrong (which means you are, accidentally, agreeing with me )

 

[smokedout]

drivel which shows you know nothing. There is precious little evidence of rape. And, yes, you can get far far better evidence of abuse than just one persons word. That Assange slept with both of them is not denied, so the 'corroborating evidence' isnt actually corroborating anything. Assange has denied all the serious claims - the condom, using his body weight as a weapon - you know, the things that actually amount to rape. So, the above is just nonsense.

there is an allegation of rape from a credible victim and no doubt that assange was at the scene and sexual contact took place, what else would you expect in a date rape type of case - remember no-one is asking for assange to be convicted on this alone, just that it is credible and normal (and right) under these circumstances for him to face charges

there are three further charges relating to sexual assault, which you seem to dismiss out of hand, even though it was serious enough for one of the alleged victims to move out of her own flat temporarily to get away from him

as pointed out earlier, they are not particularly elaborate. Even if it was an elaborate story (which it isnt) that doesnt require an elaborate set up.

'Seduce the horny old goat, get him into bed, then make some shit up - the more complex the better, cos then some eejits will think 'this is so elaborate it cant possibly be a set up!'

yes they would

you sound like jazzz, you are starting from the presumption of a grand conspiracy and then jumping through hoops to try and prove this was the case

I'm sure you'll be able to give a historical example of a honeytrap operation being used by the intelligence services to frame someone for rape then if this kind of thing is so common place

 

[JimW]

It HAS been raised, so your point is wrong (which means you are, accidentally, agreeing with me )

Raised maybe, you just have, not been latched on as part of the substance of his case.

 

[smokedout]

Because it isn't about individuals' personal freedoms, or individuals' personal injuries. It is about state power and corruption. It is about how the state - the most powerful state in the world - deals with its enemies.

what fits them up on a charge that probably wouldnt even carry a prison sentence and then bungles it completely and allows assange free passage out of sweden

 

[smokedout]

is how the most powerful state in the world deals with its enemies, they dont do subtle

 

[belboid]

there is an allegation of rape from a credible victim and no doubt that assange was at the scene and sexual contact took place, what else would you expect in a date rape type of case - remember no-one is asking for assange to be convicted on this alone, just that it is credible and normal (and right) under these circumstances for him to face charges

wholly wrong. It would not be normal for him to face charges. It would be normal for him to face questions, charges would only follow if there was any further evidence.

there are three further charges relating to sexual assault, which you seem to dismiss out of hand, even though it was serious enough for one of the alleged victims to move out of her own flat temporarily to get away from him

I have never dismissed any charges, you lying little shit, so apologise or fuck off.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

is how the most powerful state in the world deals with its enemies, they dont do subtle

Not true. Read up on the absurd list of botched plots to kill Fidel Castro.

 

[belboid]

Raised maybe, you just have, not been latched on as part of the substance of his case.

its been raised by most of the defense, actually

 

[TruXta]

Not true. Read up on the absurd list of botched plots to kill Fidel Castro.

Most of them weren't subtle, they were absurdly stupid. Poisoned cigars? Check. Exploding seashells? Check.

 

[belboid]

what fits them up on a charge that probably wouldnt even carry a prison sentence and then bungles it completely and allows assange free passage out of sweden

bungled? He has had his and wikileaks credibility all but fucked, so that soft lefties like you wont have any more to do with him or them. Far more effective than your infantile fantasies about how the state operates.

 

[belboid]

Most of them weren't subtle, they were absurdly stupid. Poisoned cigars? Check. Exploding seashells? Check.

This case isnt exactly 'subtle' either tho, is it? The point is, how they tried to fuck Castro shows the daftness of smokedouts argument.

 

[TruXta]

bungled? He has had his and wikileaks credibility all but fucked, so that soft lefties like you wont have any more to do with him or them. Far more effective than your infantile fantasies about how the state operates.

From this thread it seems plenty of lefties give him and wikileaks more than enough credibility.

 

[JimW]

its been raised by most of the defense, actually

Was good as my word and Googling round, found this pro-Assange site with a list of their problems with the prosecution and nary a sniff AFAICS: http://www.swedenversusassange.com/Prosecution.html

 

[cesare]

Because it isn't about individuals' personal freedoms, or individuals' personal injuries. It is about state power and corruption. It is about how the state - the most powerful state in the world - deals with its enemies.

I'm no big fan of the state in its various guises, but "it" for me is about the class.

 

[smokedout]

Not true. Read up on the absurd list of botched plots to kill Fidel Castro.

precisely, they dont do subtle, they do exploding cigars

 

[JimW]

precisely, they dont do subtle, they do exploding cigars

If only Fidel had been more of a serial sex abuser in Scandinavia type, we might have avoided the whole missile crisis.

 

[TruXta]

This case isnt exactly 'subtle' either tho, is it? The point is, how they tried to fuck Castro shows the daftness of smokedouts argument.

It's more than 50 years ago - they might have become a bit more finessed in the meantime. Altho maybe not. But here we go again - OTOH it's CIA who do what they want when they want and fuck anyone else - OTOH the CIA are less competent than a drunk monkey in SCUBA gear. Don't you see the disconnect?

 

[smokedout]

wholly wrong. It would not be normal for him to face charges. It would be normal for him to face questions, charges would only follow if there was any further evidence.

so thats your position, if its his word against hers, then it should go no further?

and how do you know there is no further evidence?

I have never dismissed any charges, you lying little shit, so apologise or fuck off.

well you certainly havent addressed them, so what about the sexual assault, are they making that up as well, or is rubbing your naked cock up and down against someone when asked to stop initiating sexual contact several times just bad sexual etiquette?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

precisely, they dont do subtle, they do exploding cigars

How about poison in his shoe polish that would make his beard fall out? Absurd but also rather subtle.

 

[JimW]

wholly wrong. It would not be normal for him to face charges. It would be normal for him to face questions, charges would only follow if there was any further evidence...

My Google quest brought up this too as it happens: http://samtycke.nu/eng/2012/09/julian-assange-is-charged-there-is-no-doubt-about-it/ which as you can see from the URL says he has been charged, but not yet asked to enter a plea (for some reason he seems to be hard to get hold of)

 

[JimW]

How about poison in his shoe polish that would make his beard fall out? Absurd but also rather subtle.

Fair point. Subtly comes in the effects though not the complicated number of actors required to pull it off (pull it out?)

 

[belboid]

I'm no big fan of the state in its various guises, but "it" for me is about the class.

That's nice. But doesn't actually mean anything in this context.

 

[belboid]

precisely, they dont do subtle, they do exploding cigars

Days the boy who a moment ago claimed the only way they dealt with enemies was with massive, overwhelming, force

 

[TruXta]

Days the boy who a moment ago claimed the only way they dealt with enemies was with massive, overwhelming, force

I'd say an exploding cigar would be overwhelming force. It's not exactly a polonium-tipped umbrella is it?

 

[belboid]

so thats your position, if its his word against hers, then it should go no further?

and how do you know there is no further evidence?




well you certainly havent addressed them, so what about the sexual assault, are they making that up as well, or is rubbing your naked cock up and down against someone when asked to stop initiating sexual contact several times just bad sexual etiquette?

I have said nothing about what 'should' happen, I've talked of what DOES happen. And it requires further evidence - none of which is public at this time.

And I have no interest in discussing your sexual fantasies.

 

[belboid]

Was good as my word and Googling round, found this pro-Assange site with a list of their problems with the prosecution and nary a sniff AFAICS: http://www.swedenversusassange.com/Prosecution.html

I'll have read when I'm back from signing on.

Fair point. Subtly comes in the effects though not the complicated number of actors required to pull it off (pull it out?)

The Cuba 'events' required vast numbers if actors, certainly more than would be involved here.

 

[JimW]

I'll have read when I'm back from signing on.


The Cuba 'events' required vast numbers if actors, certainly more than would be involved here.

Big team maybe but not these various agencies all singing from the same song sheet I mean.

 

[cesare]

That's nice. But doesn't actually mean anything in this context.

It does to me.