That would be a dangerous assumption.
Assange to face extradition
- Thread starter teqniq
- Start date
That would be a dangerous assumption.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Good job nobody's made it then you dopey twat.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I can't believe that Chomsky interview given the kind of empirical rigour you'd normally expect from him. He claims that "anyone in their right mind knows" Sweden is a stepping stone to the US. The evidence? They cooperated with the Nazis during WW2. I know it's an interview and some of the points aren't in quotation marks but he must be happy with the way it's presented if he's put it on his website.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The website is a pretty hands off job. I'd wait on this one.
At least he's had the sense not to make any ill-informed comments about the rape accusations themselves, or the people who've made the accusations, unlike say Galloway. Personally that's the bit that's disgusted me the most about this whole thing, the insinuations against the women who made the accusation, and the idea that it didn't constitute rape. But yes, I agree, it's jaw-dropping all the same, especially the bit about Sweden being a stepping stone to the US. I thought too that perhaps the journalist, writing to a presumably sympathetic Australian liberal audience, might be stretching some of those quotes a little, but if it's gone up on his site then I guess like you said he's happy with it.
Because even though I don't like the guy very much I would be perfectly happy to defend Assange and fight against him being deported to the states, egomaniac tosser that he is, were it not for the fact he's refusing to answer these rape charges. Every accusation of rape needs to be taken seriously, no exceptions, don't care who it is.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately that means they end up saying nothing at all about the rape allegations, which gives the impression its a non-issue unworthy of complicating the story they are trying to tell.
The Chomsky stance isnt surprising since he is one of the people that signed the letter to Ecuador supporting the asylum application.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jun/26/ecuador-julian-assange-asylum
I tend to conclude that the case simply has too many tantalising features that strike a chord with such people. Its too tempting a story, it fits so well with stories they have told before, and there are too few other high-profile characters doing such risky and info-loaded activism at the moment. Throw in various specific details about the rape allegations and the timing, and they find it rather easy to dismiss that side of the case completely, and not let it stand in the way of their standard narrative.
Beyond this case I've found much to criticise Assange and Wikileaks over, often because of things Assange has said in interviews, and despite the fact that I seem more interested than average in the actual contents of the leaks. Therefore it has been rather easy for me not to overlook the sex crime justice aspects of the case, certainly easier than it has been for those who over time have ended up with a struggle template that they seldom let pesky details get in the way of.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
do you actually understand that the woman claims to have been awakened by assange . That she wasnt comatose during intercourse . Only a sick deranged pervert would want to have sex with a comatose person . Thats not whats going on here or being discussed . Its a scenario were ones partner wakens you by engaging in a sexual act . Which is a perfectly normal thing people in a sexual relationship engage in all the time .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
out of what context ? its the context which deals directly with the specific allegation .
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's the context of the nature of her sexual relationship with him.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
hows that at all relevant
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
but how's that RELEVANT 
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
no need for that at all - and both Seamus Milne and Glenn Greenwald make the explicit point that the women are as deservng of justice as Assange. Which is why the Swedish police should go and interview him in the Ecuadorian embassy.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well I wasnt saying that nobody on that side said anything about the rape justice, I was only talking about those who hadnt.
As for the idea of them interviewing him over here, well I think it probably already went beyond that point. Having seen what he said in the original interview, and what other people said in theirs, combined with what I think I remember a few well-informed people on this thread saying in the past about the stage the proceedings in Sweden had reached, it seems more likely they dont want to just ask him a few more questions, they want to do formal legal stuff such as charging him. A little chat in the embassy doesnt really take them further along that well-defined track, which is one of the reasons its not acceptable to Sweden, not a solution.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Why don't they let the British police have a quiet word with him in the embassy?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
elbows
Well-Known Member
You can roll your eyes at me all day long, but surely people are getting upset with the dodgy points the likes of Galloway make that stomp crudely on sexual crime justice issues, and the opposite of that is to actually say something about victims and the effectiveness and speed of the justice system, even when its a messy case.
I'm refusing to start picking at all the details of the people involved, the actual type of impact of any crimes in this particular case, nor am I trying to claim that this is a great example of a case that can be used as a beacon for the cause of victims. However I have great sympathy with those who have its opposite fear - that various opinions about this this sort of case will involve all sorts of sentiments which end up harming the progress some seek in changing attitudes towards how seriously a variety of sex crimes are thought of, how much the process of seeking justice may further harm the victim, etc.
Some of the issues at stake are about far more than the actual people in this case. There are potential leakers or promoters of leaks out there who may be put off from doing something in future because of whats happened here (which is a reason not hype up how much you are being persecuted if you care about the leaking cause). And there are future victims of sexual crimes who may remember this case and be less willing to sek justice as a result.
Also my point about damage due to stuff dragging on or stalling is something that can be applied to a huge range of situations. It doesnt take much effort to understand that painful delays in justice processes lead to much suffering for many, and the concept of seeking closure and moving on with life as best you can is hardly exotic, and tends to apply to most people regardless of their role in events or any of the details.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
So they've decided to charge him before even speaking to him? That is what you are effectively saying, and there is clearly a problem with that, isnt there?
Even if it were right, it would surely, both tactically and diplomatically, be better to question him, and then explicitly say they want him deported for charging.
he isn't wanted for questioning by the british police
elbows
Well-Known Member
They already questioned him a long time ago, and indeed the transcript was leaked a long time ago.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
One of the problems that I could see with those statements, is that he was only questioned about one of the women.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
They have repeatedly said he is wanted for questioning. Are you claiming they are lying?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Apparently it's the way the Swedish system works. It's set out here in the link that Butchers found: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if the new statesman's to be believed, and i trust that rather more than i do assange supporters, the swedes want to arrest him. and why not? why would anyone object to the arrest of someone accused of rape? why not let the swedish criminal justice system run its course on the allegations of serious sexual assault? we all know that, at least in this country, far more allegations of rape are made than rapists convicted. the odds are pretty much on assange's side, or at least they would be if he could bring himself to behave for once in his life like a decent human being.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
rebutted (eventually) at http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/22/julian-assange-media-contempt
(in brief: he says David Allen Green is contradicting what he said a few months ago - when it more suited him [DAG] to say Assange was only wanted for questioning.)
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