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Art that people rave about that's actually shit.

this thread is basically 'I resent people who can describe their creative output in the lingua franca' vs 'I'm not saying my turd is art but I can goddamn well argue for it's fecal validity. Bartez'
 
Miss Caphat said:
Yes! to all of this...sums up the question and the answer pretty well, imo

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Yep...pity you didn't read my last post properly. It might have registered that I argued pretty similarly regarding the "flux" that's gone on in modern art in the last 60 years......the fact that as she says, art is trying to find itself ...
So with that in mind we are all entitled to decide for ourselves dont you think???
 
Miss Caphat said:
also, the wonderful Sister Wendy explains Rothko and pop art

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And yet Rothko despised Pop art ... makes you think doesnt it? Or maybe not in your case as you don't voice a personal opinion on modern art....your opinion is the dictated stock answer to any questioning on the artistic merits of shit.

Btw Sr Wendy is one of my favourite commentators on art. :)
 
DotCommunist said:
this thread is basically 'I resent people who can describe their creative output in the lingua franca' vs 'I'm not saying my turd is art but I can goddamn well argue for it's fecal validity. Bartez'
Click to expand...

You're nearly right :)
It's
"I resent turds that are exalted as high status art because some dick can argue their fecal validity in terms of creative output"
Vs
"All art is amazeballs.... I know this because everyone in the high status contemporary art world tells me so. And you're not to dare say otherwise as that would be a blasphemy against creativity"
 
yeah. I fought and died in this war when studying poetry and successfully arguing that hip-hop is poetry. Its all a false argument anyway. Humans make things and sometimes other humans find these things to be beautiful, pretty, moving. Where use value is indefinable except on a personal level.

I do think making out that people who enjoy abstract art are just mugs is a bit rich though, so what if they like it. So what if their are reams of crap written about this picture or that poem. It's all what it is. Make it well, make it beautiful. Thats the rasisin detrer
 
I'm sure many will already know this but for those who may not it's worth a read...despite the rather sensationalist heading the article exposes the fact that the CIA funded and actively promoted a particular style of art for political purposes related to the Cold War.

When talking about art context can sometimes be quite different when examined retrospectively.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Big wheels keep on turning.....
 
Dr_Herbz said:
At least 99% of it... IMHO

But you don't have to be a great artist to be considered great. You just have to be a great bullshitter or have a story that art bullshitters think they can sell.
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I'm not sure that's the be-all and end-all, but it's certainly the case for some art that commerciality is more important than intrinsic merit, and spieling a good line is as important as the process of making the art (as is an "artist as enfant terrible myth).
 
Miss Caphat said:
You just asked me to explain! In the very post I quoted!

:facepalm:

and I'm going to try one more time because I really don't think you get it



a) a lot of art these days is more conceptual/abstract

b) people sometimes find this a little intimidating, perpetuated by the fact that we're not really exposed to much theory & critique about art the way we are with other more popular media (music, film, etc)

c) it's very easy to write modern art off (and this includes/ included impressionism, cubism, etc) as pretentious shit, the work of con artists and hacks, etc

d) all this really accomplishes is a perpetuation of stereotypes and people deciding not to participate /engage in the world of art, it gives a very good excuse to avoid it altogether, even if you're just saying it about a handful of artists it can very easily translate to all modern / conceptual / abstract artists.
In a way, this just reinforces elitism and very small numbers of people dictating what is (good) art
Click to expand...

Art isn't helped by the fact that some people are lazy, and prefer to buy into pre-digested "controversial" positions on art, rather than actually look at the bloody stuff, and unfortunately there's a whole slew of "critics" out there ready to feed them a diet of bullshit. If I'd listened to a lot of critics contemporary to when I saw particular pieces of art, I'd have found their opinions directly antithetical to my own, and yet some of those same critics have now revised their views of, for example, Henry Moore's sculpture and the paintings of the British neo-Romantics, and can only find good things to say about them. Too many critics don't critique, they write exercises in iconoclasty.
 
chilango said:
I like that it's an erased drawing. It's intriguing. What was there? What's left? Traces, remnants, clues, fragments. I find that interesting. But then I like blanks, I like ruins, I like destruction. I like empty spaces.
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Now write an essay on your palimpsest, et voila, you'll have the spiel to accompany your framed artwork at an exhibition. ;)
 
Orang Utan said:
What is wrong with making art out of shit?
The Joseph Beuys shit in a can was a work of genius, but ffs this is sixth form art appreciation. I'm a total Philistine when it comes to art, but even I understand some of the concepts behind nonrepresentational art. Does satire not have a place in art? Do you really only want to look at pictures of things?
Click to expand...

IMO it was genius because:
a) It was the artists' quantification of "the art business" - a business that could even sell shit in a tin, and
b) he was the first artist to make such an artistic statement so forcefully - forcefully enough that he shocked much of the "art establishment" of the time, who didn't like being the butt of his humour.

And yes, satire very much has a place in art. G-d help us if it ever doesn't.
 
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bubblesmcgrath said:
Nope.
That's not what he was about.
And not what the 90 cans of his own shit were about either.

They are about the intimacy of the artistic creation. The interplay of the product of the artist's body and the consumer. The creative act ...consumption and expulsion...branding...marketting and consumerism.
That's what he said ....mind you his inspiration was less convincing. His father told him his art was shit.
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Mmm, because he really didn't have a reputation for deliberately misleading biographers (when he didn't try to kill them) and journos, did he? :)
 
ViolentPanda said:
I'm not sure that's the be-all and end-all, but it's certainly the case for some art that commerciality is more important than intrinsic merit, and spieling a good line is as important as the process of making the art (as is an "artist as enfant terrible myth).
Click to expand...

i was good at both of those aspects.
 
Orang Utan said:
Hmm, I know more way about Mapplethorpe than Bieber. I would recognise him quicker in the street (and follow him to see if I could gatecrash any party he went to)

BTW Andres Serrano did the Piss Christ photo, not Mapplethorpe. It's a lovely photo just to look at.
Click to expand...

I remember the faux outrage of the British right-wing press about Piss Christ, and how the leader writer for the Telegraph (IIRC Dominic Lawson at the time) went into orgasmic rhapsodies explaining how Sen. Jesse Helms (the rightest of rightwing Republican shitbags) had (successfully) lobbied the National Endowment for the Arts to remove Serrano's funding.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Yep...pity you didn't read my last post properly. It might have registered that I argued pretty similarly regarding the "flux" that's gone on in modern art in the last 60 years......the fact that as she says, art is trying to find itself ...
So with that in mind we are all entitled to decide for ourselves dont you think???
Click to expand...

yes, it's all about you. seriously, bubbles, I have stopped caring about your opinion completely.
 
Miss Caphat said:
yes, it's all about you. seriously, bubbles, I have stopped caring about your opinion completely.
Click to expand...

Nah...you may think this but really..it isn't :)


Here are a few artists whose work is interesting and beautiful .

Samantha Nicole Russell

1353842-7.jpg


And one of my favourites...
Steve Hannock..
hannock1a.jpg

I love his colour palette and style.
 
ViolentPanda said:
IMO it was genius because:
a) It was the artists' quantification of "the art business" - a business that could even sell shit in a tin, and
b) he was the first artist to make such an artistic statement so forcefully - forcefully enough that he shocked much of the "art establishment" of the time, who didn't like being the butt of his humour.

And yes, satire very much has a place in art. G-d help us if it ever doesn't.
Click to expand...

Apparently Manzoni once said that he was exposing "the gullibility of the art-buying public" ...
He "said" he wanted to literally produce something from himself. Hence his shit was his "expression" as in expressed from him..and canned for consumption...yeah it was "clever" and satirical...and poked fun at the unquestioning public... But Piero Manzoni wasn't the first to employ scatology. As far back as Chaucer and I'm sure further than him.. was a theme in the arts.
It's shit...he knew it was shit...and it's still shit even though the art world is trying not to lose face for buying into his shit...:D
 
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