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Are we really going to sit by while they destroy the NHS?

The whole system now is so broken I can’t look at it, like the sun.

In Leeds, there are 9 care coordinators in community camhs with a waiting list of 420 children and young people.

Cat A ambulances in YAS are routinely taking double the response time, and an elderly person with a fall can wait 4-6 hours on the ground (‘cover them with a blanket and stay with them’ deviates from the NICE guidance for fractured neck of femur when time to theatre crucially effects survival).

I would no longer call an emergency ambulance for myself. When my femoral artery ruptured post endovascular neurosurgery I got my kids to drag me to the car. My MiL with a spinal infarct presenting with cauda equina syndrome, incontinent, and paralysed legs waited two hours until her elderly husband and an Uber driver lifted her into a cab.

The Emergency Department at Jimmies is functioning like a third world triage centre, patients on trolleys in the corridors, calling out from cubicles for help, people trying to sleep on the floor of the waiting room, waiting all night or all day often with no pain relief.

And Primary Care has ceased to function. To get an appointment now at my practice you have to call in a 10 min window at the start of the day, if you miss it tough shit, you can’t even sit and wait anymore. When my son was ill this summer I got fobbed off for five days. Eventually I walked in (crying) and refused to leave until I had a same day face to face appointment. But I give no shits, I won’t take no for an answer, I have no mental health problems, money on my phone, I’m not elderly, and I work in the NHS.

Specialist referrals- my mates kid got referred to an urgent respiratory clinic at Leeds General Infirmary. After 8 weeks she rang up Choose & Book (choose & book hahaha fuck off you cunts) and got told yes her daughter was fifth on the list. Rang back a month later, guess what she’s still fifth. The phone operator looked into it. The list was for urgent patients who required face to face appointment, but that clinic wasn’t running currently only the non-urgent phone clinic. You couldn’t make it up could you. Obviously my friend then had to go back to the GP (hello endless phone cycle, your number 19 in the queue, omg are there even 19 appointments left?!) to amend the referral.

2ww referrals now routinely handled by private outpatient clinics, staffed by NHS consultants acting in addition to their 6 NHS PAs, all paid double by the NHS.

The NHS is not even consistently delivering basic care now. It’s more dangerous existing in this fucked up state than not existing at all. It’s an illusion of a healthcare system. There is no amount of protesting or placard waving or striking or even money that can fix this. I feel utterly powerless and the only way I can deal with it is to basically not think about it and do my job, on a beach full of stranded jellyfish picking up and throwing them one at a time back into the sea.
 
And Primary Care has ceased to function. To get an appointment now at my practice you have to call in a 10 min window at the start of the day, if you miss it tough shit, you can’t even sit and wait anymore. When my son was ill this summer I got fobbed off for five days. Eventually I walked in (crying) and refused to leave until I had a same day face to face appointment. But I give no shits, I won’t take no for an answer, I have no mental health problems, money on my phone, I’m not elderly, and I work in the NHS.
I work in a GP surgery, and it is increasingly the case that people are coming up to reception and doing exactly that, having tried for days to get through on a phone call which queues them for half an hour or more, and then just says "Nobody is available to answer your call" and dumps it.

It's not just that it's shit...it's that the ways in which it is shit couldn't be CALCULATED to be more shit if they tried.
 
The NHS is not even consistently delivering basic care now. It’s more dangerous existing in this fucked up state than not existing at all. It’s an illusion of a healthcare system. There is no amount of protesting or placard waving or striking or even money that can fix this. I feel utterly powerless and the only way I can deal with it is to basically not think about it and do my job, on a beach full of stranded jellyfish picking up and throwing them one at a time back into the sea.
Been like this for a while IME. We had a village surgery. The old dr's retired. They couldn't get new blood, apparently so they merged with nearby surgeries. This happened right around the creation of CCG's. The new entity coudln't really be bothered to staff the local surgery while happy to take private money running a service for employers to 'check' (in some fashion) on employees who reported sickness. Sounded well sus. Now the local surgery has been shut during the afternoons for a few years and from what I've been told, is mainly and administration hub. The main surgery, which was where vaccines were being rolled out, is inaccessible without a car. Fortunately I was able to get a lift from the local community transport, but that won't be possible for routine appointments, nor for everyone. Prior to the pandemic they introduced a web based appointment service for booking appointments. Not much better than the telephone and no good without online access. It was also inscrutable to use. The pandemic stopped that. I don't know when it will be restored, or it, so it's back to queuing up on the phone for an appointment at 8am when lines open. It is a fait accompli taht the lines will be jammed.
 
The whole system now is so broken I can’t look at it, like the sun.

In Leeds, there are 9 care coordinators in community camhs with a waiting list of 420 children and young people.

Cat A ambulances in YAS are routinely taking double the response time, and an elderly person with a fall can wait 4-6 hours on the ground (‘cover them with a blanket and stay with them’ deviates from the NICE guidance for fractured neck of femur when time to theatre crucially effects survival).

I would no longer call an emergency ambulance for myself. When my femoral artery ruptured post endovascular neurosurgery I got my kids to drag me to the car. My MiL with a spinal infarct presenting with cauda equina syndrome, incontinent, and paralysed legs waited two hours until her elderly husband and an Uber driver lifted her into a cab.

The Emergency Department at Jimmies is functioning like a third world triage centre, patients on trolleys in the corridors, calling out from cubicles for help, people trying to sleep on the floor of the waiting room, waiting all night or all day often with no pain relief.

And Primary Care has ceased to function. To get an appointment now at my practice you have to call in a 10 min window at the start of the day, if you miss it tough shit, you can’t even sit and wait anymore. When my son was ill this summer I got fobbed off for five days. Eventually I walked in (crying) and refused to leave until I had a same day face to face appointment. But I give no shits, I won’t take no for an answer, I have no mental health problems, money on my phone, I’m not elderly, and I work in the NHS.

Specialist referrals- my mates kid got referred to an urgent respiratory clinic at Leeds General Infirmary. After 8 weeks she rang up Choose & Book (choose & book hahaha fuck off you cunts) and got told yes her daughter was fifth on the list. Rang back a month later, guess what she’s still fifth. The phone operator looked into it. The list was for urgent patients who required face to face appointment, but that clinic wasn’t running currently only the non-urgent phone clinic. You couldn’t make it up could you. Obviously my friend then had to go back to the GP (hello endless phone cycle, your number 19 in the queue, omg are there even 19 appointments left?!) to amend the referral.

2ww referrals now routinely handled by private outpatient clinics, staffed by NHS consultants acting in addition to their 6 NHS PAs, all paid double by the NHS.

The NHS is not even consistently delivering basic care now. It’s more dangerous existing in this fucked up state than not existing at all. It’s an illusion of a healthcare system. There is no amount of protesting or placard waving or striking or even money that can fix this. I feel utterly powerless and the only way I can deal with it is to basically not think about it and do my job, on a beach full of stranded jellyfish picking up and throwing them one at a time back into the sea.

Innit. Just about to leave primary care and start at full time at A&E , not looking forward to it. I've seen patients in the last 2-3 months and needed to call an ambulance for them and have regularly been on hold for 30 mins or so. That's not 'have a chat, they think it's not serious so put me on hold', that's nobody answers the phone for 30 mins hold.

So many problems on so many levels, hard to know how to start fixing it tbh.
 
The current situation is callous, calculated and totally deliberate.

They want to carve up the NHS 'cake' and sell it off. They know that the NHS is the one institution that people across the political spectrum will defend, so the strategy is to make things so ineffably shit, so full of dysfunction and smattered with individual anecdotes of tragedies that people will end up taking their 'proposals' seriously. Not having a proper social care plan also just piles the pressure on.

I want a reckoning. I want these criminals, these cowards who use their money to insulate themselves and their families from this stream of shit to be held to account.

We need to make sure that these individual tragedies are remembered collectively as an affront to any notion of 'civilization'. This is our reality, our families and lives. Not theirs. This country was never ours.

Fuck them to hell and back.
 
Innit. Just about to leave primary care and start at full time at A&E , not looking forward to it. I've seen patients in the last 2-3 months and needed to call an ambulance for them and have regularly been on hold for 30 mins or so. That's not 'have a chat, they think it's not serious so put me on hold', that's nobody answers the phone for 30 mins hold.

So many problems on so many levels, hard to know how to start fixing it tbh.
I mean it’s quite incredible when you think about that. A call from a GP practice to the ambulance service unanswered after 30 minutes. Just not picked up. It is no longer an emergency service. It is not functional. In Yorkshire, UK. Mind boggling.

Makes you wonder if it is this bad in the South. I suspect so. My cuz is a paramedic in Bristol and it’s certainly this bad there. I suspect not in the South East where there is more wealth.
 
I mean it’s quite incredible when you think about that. A call from a GP practice to the ambulance service unanswered after 30 minutes. Just not picked up. It is no longer an emergency service. It is not functional. In Yorkshire, UK. Mind boggling.

Makes you wonder if it is this bad in the South. I suspect so. My cuz is a paramedic in Bristol and it’s certainly this bad there. I suspect not in the South East where there is more wealth.

My partner and various members of my family have all been through very similar versions of the kind of shit you describe. We all live in the South West.

111 calls don't get answered any more. At all. Ambulance waiting times are so bad you'd be better off walking to hospital even with a broken leg. Have been since before the summer.

My mum had to get my stepdad to hospital in the back of her car when he broke his shoulder. A five foot woman in her sixties manhandling a badly injured six foot bloke, knowing she was hurting him and knowing she had no choice. And she's given her whole working life to the NHS, only to watch it disintegrate in front of her. Just awful.
 
I don’t know what we do. On a practical level, what do we do?

I now don’t hesitate to use PALS. If I want something done, I contact them straight off. It has some effect on inpatient care (this was for my son on one occasion when he needed an urgent surgical assessment, and advice I give to my patients including contacting them on behalf of my patients).

I also now openly advise patients not to call or wait for an ambulance in an emergency unless there is no other alternative- no family member, taxi, neighbour, or if it’s literally a cardiac arrest or the patient in unable to be moved. I was advising a PC in attendance with a patient the night before last by telephone, and I told him to transport the young person to A&E in his car not call YAS.

I openly advise patients to use private healthcare for mental health problems unless they are already under a CMHT or have a psychotic disorder or life threatening ED.

And I’d have a very low threshold for using private medical care for my own family if it was elective. I don’t think I’d get insurance myself (brain aneurysm, rheumatoid arthritis, previous neck liposarcoma) but am considering insuring my kids.

At work I protect my time & sanity as much as I can.

I don’t know what else to do. Nothing else works.
 
As someone that has worked in social care their entire adult life now, i dunno how it helps being accused of "sitting by" whilst it is being destroyed. like 2 or 3 years ago me and my colleagues came onto shift to a HANDWRITTEN NOTE from some NHS employed nurse or doctor 'HERE IS WHAT YOU DO IF THIS PERSONS FOOT DETACHES' and they gave some great instructions but we had no fucking idea where to put this persons foot once we dealt with it, in the sink? in the bathroom? in the bin? And no one where i worked could tell us where to leave this detached foot. now this was nearly 2 years before covid, post covid there are now younger people finding out what it is like to be completely fucking abandoned by the NHS but this is not new territory, welcome to the party guys. This has been going on for decades and no one has given a fuck before now so don't hold your breath. Fucking 100 per cent abandonment fae the NHS is something i factored into my job as a carer for the elderly well over a decade ago. I have seen people in states you would not leave a dog in and the NHS just says it isn't their problem. You guys are seeing this with covid now. isn't it fucking grim.


Not a dig at any of the frontline workers in this thread obviously, I have just had enough of the whole shitshow.
Struggling to make sense of this post. Who has accused social care of sitting by? Why couldn’t you get advice about clinical waste? The problem with the NHS isn’t due to covid, and we’re certainly not just seeing it now? It’s not just ‘frontline’ workers who are effected it’s everyone?
 
My partner and various members of my family have all been through very similar versions of the kind of shit you describe. We all live in the South West.

111 calls don't get answered any more. At all. Ambulance waiting times are so bad you'd be better off walking to hospital even with a broken leg. Have been since before the summer.

My mum had to get my stepdad to hospital in the back of her car when he broke his shoulder. A five foot woman in her sixties manhandling a badly injured six foot bloke, knowing she was hurting him and knowing she had no choice. And she's given her whole working life to the NHS, only to watch it disintegrate in front of her. Just awful.
As do i. This week hospitals declared maximum state of emergency. AnE is at breaking point and people are told to stay away unless it is absolutely urgent. But how do you?

Remember the situation in 2019 around the time of the election that Labour stupidly allowed to go ahead? Kids sleeping on chairs? Matt Hancock promising to recruit 50,000 new nurses ina fit of intellectual sabotage and chicanery? All those promises broken. Nurses betrayed with a real terms pay cut following the pandemic they knew was coming?

These past months have felt hperaccelarated. A lifetime's worth of corruption and lies in less than 2 years. Like the extreme weather events they will also ignore.

I'm not sure how much long this can continue. We are on the sharp edge of something. Never mind they intend to do nothing about the mass exodus of care workers due to vaccine mandates (assuming that happens). We now have a covid crank and an ex banker running the show and a fucking shredded wheat in a shirt who can't even be bothered to wear a mask in a hospital. They literally do not care
 
As do i. This week hospitals declared maximum state of emergency. AnE is at breaking point and people are told to stay away unless it is absolutely urgent. But how do you?

It's a lot harder to stay out of A&E when there's no other treatment you can access. The out of hours GP provision here is an answering machine telling you to fuck off. The walk in centre is suitable only for people who don't currently have hepatitis, but would like to.

I'm joking, but only just :(
 
As do i. This week hospitals declared maximum state of emergency. AnE is at breaking point and people are told to stay away unless it is absolutely urgent. But how do you?

Remember the situation in 2019 around the time of the election that Labour stupidly allowed to go ahead? Kids sleeping on chairs? Matt Hancock promising to recruit 50,000 new nurses ina fit of intellectual sabotage and chicanery? All those promises broken. Nurses betrayed with a real terms pay cut following the pandemic they knew was coming?

These past months have felt hperaccelarated. A lifetime's worth of corruption and lies in less than 2 years. Like the extreme weather events they will also ignore.

I'm not sure how much long this can continue. We are on the sharp edge of something. Never mind they intend to do nothing about the mass exodus of care workers due to vaccine mandates (assuming that happens). We now have a covid crank and an ex banker running the show and a fucking shredded wheat in a shirt who can't even be bothered to wear a mask in a hospital. They literally do not care
A shredded wheat in a shirt? :D
 
It's a lot harder to stay out of A&E when there's no other treatment you can access. The out of hours GP provision here is an answering machine telling you to fuck off. The walk in centre is suitable only for people who don't currently have hepatitis, but would like to.

I'm joking, but only just :(
It makes sense that people would go to AnE if they can't go elsewhere. Unfortuantely our shit Tory MP has done anything about the local hospital which has been incrisis for years. It's AnE was (perhaps still is) shut at nights anyway. The hospital is rated 'inadequate'. Good Job Tories. Ten years!
 
Than you for keeping your eye on the ball. The Tories are deliberately underfunding the NHS to make it look shit so they can send in the private sector to ‘rescue’ it.
I agree that is the agenda and has been for years.....but what I don't understand is how the private sector can save anything when there is just not enough staff?

It would take years to get enough staff to run a fit for purpose service. A large amount of staff are nearing retirement (@55 years specially if they have worked for the NHS for a few decades) The nursing degree course doesn't have as much take up since it stopped being a free degree. Brexit......all at the same time as the birth rate rising and people living longer...

There is not enough staff to provide a SAFE service. Is this only true of the NHS?

Is it different in private hospitals?

A lot of the consultants here (NHS teaching hospital) also work in private hospitals (2 tier system)

Private patients have been creeping onto some of the theatre lists I work on. Same treatment as NHS patients (theoretically) cept they get a pre op super quick and only have to wait a week for surgery. Wouldn't suprise me if they were also first on the theatre list on the day - meaning they are more likely to get better care then someone who is operated on in the afternoon as staffing reduces as the day goes on.

Can't see a way out of this shit show.
 
I agree that is the agenda and has been for years.....but what I don't understand is how the private sector can save anything when there is just not enough staff?

It would take years to get enough staff to run a fit for purpose service. A large amount of staff are nearing retirement (@55 years specially if they have worked for the NHS for a few decades) The nursing degree course doesn't have as much take up since it stopped being a free degree. Brexit......all at the same time as the birth rate rising and people living longer...

There is not enough staff to provide a SAFE service. Is this only true of the NHS?

Is it different in private hospitals?

A lot of the consultants here (NHS teaching hospital) also work in private hospitals (2 tier system)

Private patients have been creeping onto some of the theatre lists I work on. Same treatment as NHS patients (theoretically) cept they get a pre op super quick and only have to wait a week for surgery. Wouldn't suprise me if they were also first on the theatre list on the day - meaning they are more likely to get better care then someone who is operated on in the afternoon as staffing reduces as the day goes on.

Can't see a way out of this shit show.
You work in the NHS right (I did 5 years in acute psychiatry in the NHS (currently working in Canada (shifted over after my ward got closed)))?
The private sector aren’t into saving anything. It’s all about profits for them. The NHS is two things to the right. A functioning successful example of socialism which must be destroyed for ideological reasons and a huge pile of public cash to be robbed. That’s it.
 
Than you for keeping your eye on the ball. The Tories are deliberately underfunding the NHS to make it look shit so they can send in the private sector to ‘rescue’ it.
They won’t rescue it though. There’s a finite amount of staff. All they will do is make this resource available to the highest bidder only via the private sector, it’s all about queue jumping for the wealthy, the rest can fuck off to some faith-based charity or something.
 
They won’t rescue it though. There’s a finite amount of staff. All they will do is make this resource available to the highest bidder only via the private sector, it’s all about queue jumping for the wealthy, the rest can fuck off to some faith-based charity or something.
Agree.
 
Ah, I have had 2 A&E visits in the last 4 years (both pre-covid). No-one even gets through the door. You are expected to stand on the outside pavement (or lie on the ground, in the case of my youngest, with a ruptured appendix). We watched a man whose entire upper body was a lurid scarlet, after some chemical accident, have to stand behind a fucking rugby player with a fucked ankle (yep, this was Saturday afternoon) for 20 minutes. No seats, no trolleys. Fortunately, I brought duvets, pillows...and when my tooth was in utter agony, with no dentists to be had anywhere ( O, the laughable 111!!!), I removed it myself with an adjustable wrench and kitchen paper...because the NHS, as an institution, has been a shitshow for years, even before Covid.
 
Ah, I have had 2 A&E visits in the last 4 years (both pre-covid). No-one even gets through the door. You are expected to stand on the outside pavement (or lie on the ground, in the case of my youngest, with a ruptured appendix). We watched a man whose entire upper body was a lurid scarlet, after some chemical accident, have to stand behind a fucking rugby player with a fucked ankle (yep, this was Saturday afternoon) for 20 minutes. No seats, no trolleys. Fortunately, I brought duvets, pillows...and when my tooth was in utter agony, with no dentists to be had anywhere ( O, the laughable 111!!!), I removed it myself with an adjustable wrench and kitchen paper...because the NHS, as an institution, has been a shitshow for years, even before Covid.
Sure. Try that under an insurance based system like the USA and see the outcome. If you can pay for it you can jump the queue. Triaging sounded weird in your situation.
 
I feel sorry for the nurses. They are given the same working conditions but no reward every. single time. They are at the front line and can see the system is broken more than anyone. It must be a brutal (and thankless) experience.
 
I feel sorry for the nurses. They are given the same working conditions but no reward every. single time. They are at the front line and can see the system is broken more than anyone. It must be a brutal (and thankless) experience.
I am a nurse. You work with what you have if your at the coal face. And nurses are tough so no problem. The systemic issues are annoying though.
 
Triaging started once you got inside, Ming...but until then, people had to wait outside the doors while every single person had to answer a heap of questions, delivered by a nurse standing in front of a podium with a laptop on it, just inside the main doors. Shit like name and address of GP, NHS number, next of kin...before the tiniest clinical decisions were made. And, because a lot of people really just needed a GP or a dentist or non-urgent stuff (such as antibiotics for an infection), there was a huge bottleneck, right at the entrance. Truly astonishing, seeing people shivering, bleeding, clutching blankets, on the street...as though we were queuing to go to the cinema or something.
 
Triaging started once you got inside, Ming...but until then, people had to wait outside the doors while every single person had to answer a heap of questions, delivered by a nurse standing in front of a podium with a laptop on it, just inside the main doors. Shit like name and address of GP, NHS number, next of kin...before the tiniest clinical decisions were made. And, because a lot of people really just needed a GP or a dentist or non-urgent stuff (such as antibiotics for an infection), there was a huge bottleneck, right at the entrance. Truly astonishing, seeing people shivering, bleeding, clutching blankets, on the street...as though we were queuing to go to the cinema or something.
Sounds like it needs the genius of the market place.
 
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