Are we getting 'sexualities' confused with mindsets?

[stethoscope]

Took me a few seconds to work out what these were.

I've started to use that, because I certainly won't use a 'certain' term (as I won't a couple of others that seem to have entered our vocab through mostly shit politics on social media), and also because on that particular subject its not the concerns that women may genuinely hold (some of it seems to me to be reasonable and justified, other stuff seems unnecessarily unfounded) that I have the bigger issue with, its clearly the whole industry that has grown up around the 'culture wars' of making a hostile environment for trans and queer people - the glinners, the conservatives, the right, the hate blogs, assorted oddballs, obsessive single-issue groups, etc.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I thought it was just meant to show your rough match with cultural gender roles*.
As opposed to saying what you're really like particularly (ie. gender role vs. gender identity).

I'm inclined to think it's Bella magazine type toss rather than anything nasty (though someone above said it had been used to attack trans people ).

* - specifically the ones of 1958 suburban Massachusetts

It may not be intended to be nasty, but its effect will be to validate and strengthen those stereotypes.

 

[Cloo]

On that test I came out as a single figure % for either gender - obviously NB then

 

[8ball]

It may not be intended to be nasty, but its effect will be to validate and strengthen those stereotypes.

That's the main reason why I wonder about so many kids deciding they're nonbinary etc.
It's a binary that no one ever really fit into properly anyway, that existed for cultural reasons.

 

[8ball]

On that test I came out as a single figure % for either gender - obviously NB then

Guess it said "undifferentiated"
Like you're an embryo or something.

 

[maomao]

I'm 50% female and 25% male according to that. Leaves me 25% short which is good as I could do with losing four stone.

 

[bimble]

Found a gender role test online.

So not the same as this sexuality stuff, but in a related arena.
This is me:

View attachment 221120
Am inclined to think this is a big pile of shite.
Also wonder what the remaining 1% is.

edit: actually it's not meant to add up to 100%, so you could potentially be 75% masculine and 75% feminine, apparently...

Thanks. This just made me Very Angry On The Internet. Fucking “mild” & “yielding” wonder which half of humans those are supposed to describe.

 

[8ball]

I'm 50% female and 25% male according to that. Leaves me 25% short which is good as I could do with losing four stone.

They don't add up to 100%. It's sort of saying you're at 50% max strength of 'feminine traits' and at 25% max strength of 'masculine traits'.

 

[8ball]

Thanks. This just made me Very Angry On The Internet. Fucking “mild” & “yielding” wonder which half of humans those are supposed to describe.

Yw.

(I think the test is explicitly meant to be talking about cultural expectations - not saying anyone "should" be like anything, but that this is the current expectation. which makes it rather culture and time specific)

 

[bimble]

No surprises here, this is the traits in that stupid test lined up according to masculinity & feminity.

 

[8ball]

Lol at "gullible" and "not susceptible to flattery".

edit: it was published in 1974 - I had it down as maybe 2 decades earlier

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No surprises here, this is the traits in that stupid test lined up according to masculinity & feminity.
View attachment 221133

Fucking hell.

'childlike' and 'gullible'

We haven't properly left the Victorian era, have we?

 

[8ball]

Fucking hell.

'childlike' and 'gullible'

We haven't properly left the Victorian era, have we?

See no. 20 on the "items for evaluating femininity" (also no. 40 on the masculinity side).

 

[Steel Icarus]

One of my roles in my job is to present to the (overwhelmingly male) cohort of students that you can be a man and also kind, polite, gentle, make compromises, listen, etc etc

It's not easy because those roles are so drilled into them from day one. Backing down/walking away/ignoring those you don't get on with = automatically being a pussy/faggot.

 

[8ball]

One of my roles in my job is to present to the (overwhelmingly male) cohort of students that you can be a man and also kind, polite, gentle, make compromises, listen, etc etc

What age are these students?

 

[Steel Icarus]

What age are these students?

Vast majority 16-19

 

[8ball]

Vast majority 16-19

Just wondering. I find youngsters generally seem less macho than my cohort when in my presence, but then I see some of the crap they post online...

 

[Doodler]

.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Just wondering. I find youngsters generally seem less macho than my cohort when in my presence, but then I see some of the crap they post online...

There's also a noticeable difference between what they're like talking to me 1:1 and with their peers.

 

[planetgeli]

There's also a noticeable difference between what they're like talking to me 1:1 and with their peers.

Massively.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There's also a noticeable difference between what they're like talking to me 1:1 and with their peers.

And that's key, isn't it? All this gender role shit is much less about how people are, and much more about how people think others think they should be. That's why it's so poisonous to create systems that seek to essentialise and validate it.

 

[8ball]

And that's key, isn't it? All this gender role shit is much less about how people are, and much more about how people think others think they should be. That's why it's so poisonous to create systems that seek to essentialise and validate it.

While I totally agree with this - the thing I posted was a means of measuring it, as opposed to essentialising, though outside an academic environment there's always a risk of validating stuff.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

While I totally agree with this - the thing I posted was a means of measuring it, as opposed to essentialising, though outside an academic environment there's always a risk of validating stuff.

In doing the one, they invariably also do the other. Just by producing the percentages at the end, they contribute to that.

That's how gender stereotypes work - they produce the behaviour they describe, often by very subtle processes. Just by suggesting to people that certain behaviours or attributes are gender-related, you help to reproduce the biases. Particularly in girls, but also in boys. Lots of studies have shown this. It's so internalised that you can, for instance, reduce a girl's score in a maths test just by reminding her that she's a girl just before she takes it.

 

[freakydave]

In doing the one, they invariably also do the other. Just by producing the percentages at the end, they contribute to that.

That's how gender stereotypes work - they produce the behaviour they describe, often by very subtle processes. Just by suggesting to people that certain behaviours or attributes are gender-related, you help to reproduce the biases. Particularly in girls, but also in boys. Lots of studies have shown this. It's so internalised that you can, for instance, reduce a girl's score in a maths test just by reminding her that she's a girl just before she takes it.

Probably because boys are more self reliant and independent whereas girls are naturally submissive and cowlike

I would have imagined that boys suffer from it more than girls since this bullshit is seen as something to overcome for young women much more than young men

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Probably because boys are more self reliant and independent whereas girls are naturally submissive and cowlike

I would have imagined that boys suffer from it more than girls since this bullshit is seen as something to overcome for young women much more than young men

In the sense that it creates a gap between how you feel yourself to be and how you feel you ought to be, it damages everyone. I don't think that last bit is true though, no. It's not a competition, but this is probably one of the biggest reasons clinical depression is so much more prevalent among women than men.

I don't want to get into the evils of ECT (for another thread, but I'll just note that the figures quoted in the attached link relate only to how people report feeling (and even in many cases, are reported as feeling by the doctor who administered the treatment) directly after treatment; the story changes dramatically if you follow up over time), but a whopping two thirds of people receiving it in the UK are women. That rises to three quarters of those receiving repeat doses.

Electroconvulsive therapy mostly used on women and older people, says study

 

[8ball]

I would have imagined that boys suffer from it more than girls since this bullshit is seen as something to overcome for young women much more than young men

Hmmm....

<ponders>
<strokes lockdown beard>

 

[8ball]

I don't want to get into the evils of ECT (for another thread, but I'll just note that the figures quoted in the attached link relate only to how people report feeling (and even in many cases, are reported as feeling by the doctor who administered the treatment) directly after treatment; the story changes dramatically if you follow up over time), but a whopping two thirds of people receiving it in the UK are women. That rises to three quarters of those receiving repeat doses.

Electroconvulsive therapy mostly used on women and older people, says study

Spike Milligan was a great advocate of ECT.
Tangents aside, are the conditions which ECT is used for more prevalent in women?

 

[Little Piranha]

Depression and anxiety diagnoses are more common for women.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

No surprises here, this is the traits in that stupid test lined up according to masculinity & feminity.
View attachment 221133

That gives me uncontrollable rage
Is that a masculine or a feminine trait?

 

[8ball]

That gives me uncontrollable rage
Is that a masculine or a feminine trait?

Hulk.