Are we getting 'sexualities' confused with mindsets?

[NoXion]

Look at all those flags. I guess love really is a battlefield after all.

 

[Raheem]

People are always going to invent labels for things and if it helps someone feel less alone why not tbh.

A lot of these 'labels' are just words for things that would naturally have always had words except, historically, we haven't talked about them.

It's a healthy thing for people to talk about and understand their sexuality, and having a vocabulary makes it easier. Plus, good for people to have words to describe themselves beyond 'weirdo'.

 

[The39thStep]

Anything about Virgos in that ?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I don’t care about other people’s sexuality. In 99.999% of my interactions with people sex isn’t going to be an issue so why should it be any of my business what they choose to do or who they choose to do it with?
Have we learned nothing from the way LBGT people have been, and still are In many places, stigmatised by people who think they have a right to know about , and control other people’s sexuality?

I meant care as in personally care about your own.
However I do also feel it is important to care about other in the sense you are respecting others and that includes respecting how they chose to present this information.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I get that, but once you have 20 flags out there it becomes meaningless to anybody trying to keep track. When nobody knows what your flag means, it's meaningless. I'm all for the people of color inclusion as an addition to the traditional LGBT+ flag and can wrap my the trans flag, but do we really need a polyamorous, etc flag ? As a gay man I always thought we were more free to define our relationships along non-traditional lines anyway. Once you basically indicate to your parents that you like sucking cock once you come out to them, negotiating a non-monogamous relationship with a partner should be a doddle. So do we really need a flag for every different relationship variation ? Its the LGBT+ bigots who don't understand and aren't represented by the spirit of the rainbow flag and creating new flags is in opposition of its meaning.

A flag is important to the person who chooses to wave it. It is also important to those who rally behind it.
Just because someone else doesn't get it does not remove its importance to it's creator and those who also hold it in significance.
And if some group wants a flag why should anyone say they shouldn't have a flag? unless they are being hateful which I don't believe these groups are.
I'd also guess most of these groups would also fly the rainbow flag at most occasions where flags were in need.

 

[Raheem]

I reckon the vast majority of people who feel they fit into one of these categories would never give a shit about having a flag anyway. It's just something that's pushed by vested interests in the calico industry.

 

[Reno]

Someone close to me is "Demi-sexual" I think, or one of the Asexual subsets. the way they explain it is they do enjoy sex, but they are not generally attracted to people off the bat in the way that seemingly (but probably not) lots of people are, but also they experience it in the relationship too. I think they've always felt different in regards to how they feel about sex and how it happens for most people. For example won't really think about it unless someone else instigates it. It's just not there otherwise even though enjoy it.

What I do know is this was comforting for them and made them feel less alone. It explained a little bit that there is not something wrong with them and it seems to much up with what they experience. I think that's okay.

The irony is that who in this case now regards themselves as a sexual minority, is what my generation was taught is what we should all be like.

 

[Cloo]

This ties into my feeling that a lot of people, especially younger ones, are identifying as 'non-binary' not because they have a profound sense that they are of neither sex (and I think this is a genuine thing for a very small number of people) but as a political statement that they don't like gender stereotypes, which is not the same thing. I was very taken by a quote I saw somewhere that to the effect that declaring yourself non-binary in the way a lot of people seem to is to declare that gender rules don't apply to you, which is fine for you, but it would be more of a statement to declare that you are female but you know you don't have to be like this or that in order to be female. That would actually challenge gender stereotypes more than a declaration that you are neither male nor female. Obviously, one's identity doesn't have to, and indeed, shouldn't have to have a 'purpose' beyond you, but the political way NB is being used, I think that was a good point. You're just saying that you're an exception, not changing or challenging anything about the stereotypes. But I don't know, maybe among the kids being NB as a political statement is seen as just fine, it's just my feeling was it was supposed to apply to a profound sense of genderlessness.

 

[A380]

there is a difference between people being equal and expecting everyone to be the same

equality is about putting a ramp entrance at a public building so that wheelchair users can get in. treating everyone the same is about letting everyone use the same set of stairs



so to avoid being stigmatised / discriminated against, LGBT people should just shut up and stay in the closet?

Yes, that’s the diametrically oposed opposite to what I wrote. We should work for a world where it doesn’t matter what your sexuality is because it doesn’t effect any one else Therefore no one would need to ever be in a closet ever. What part of that didn’t you understand.

 

[SpookyFrank]

This ties into my feeling that a lot of people, especially younger ones, are identifying as 'non-binary' not because they have a profound sense that they are of neither sex (and I think this is a genuine thing for a very small number of people) but as a political statement that they don't like gender stereotypes, which is not the same thing. I was very taken by a quote I saw somewhere that to the effect that declaring yourself non-binary in the way a lot of people seem to is to declare that gender rules don't apply to you, which is fine for you, but it would be more of a statement to declare that you are female but you know you don't have to be like this or that in order to be female. That would actually challenge gender stereotypes more than a declaration that you are neither male nor female. Obviously, one's identity doesn't have to, and indeed, shouldn't have to have a 'purpose' beyond you, but the political way NB is being used, I think that was a good point. You're just saying that you're an exception, not changing or challenging anything about the stereotypes. But I don't know, maybe among the kids being NB as a political statement is seen as just fine, it's just my feeling was it was supposed to apply to a profound sense of genderlessness.

I wrote a big long thing about this once. The gist was, I'm non binary in the sense that little that is traditionally associated with masculinity really applies to me but not in the sense that I want to slap a label on myself that distinguishes me from 'normal' people. I also don't want to dodge the implications of my inevitable perception by others as 'male' by unilaterally de-gendering myself. But whenever I try to address these things, it's always with the caveat 'this is my personal response, other responses are also necessary and valid'.

 

[bimble]

This ties into my feeling that a lot of people, especially younger ones, are identifying as 'non-binary' not because they have a profound sense that they are of neither sex (and I think this is a genuine thing for a very small number of people) but as a political statement that they don't like gender stereotypes, which is not the same thing. I was very taken by a quote I saw somewhere that to the effect that declaring yourself non-binary in the way a lot of people seem to is to declare that gender rules don't apply to you, which is fine for you, but it would be more of a statement to declare that you are female but you know you don't have to be like this or that in order to be female. That would actually challenge gender stereotypes more than a declaration that you are neither male nor female. Obviously, one's identity doesn't have to, and indeed, shouldn't have to have a 'purpose' beyond you, but the political way NB is being used, I think that was a good point. You're just saying that you're an exception, not changing or challenging anything about the stereotypes. But I don't know, maybe among the kids being NB as a political statement is seen as just fine, it's just my feeling was it was supposed to apply to a profound sense of genderlessness.

Yes I can't help it, people who declare themselves nb do get my back up, because surely they can't seriously think everyone else in the world who has not announced themselves likewise is "binary" and if so what does that even mean. Should i not enjoy using powertools or wearing checked shirts unless I have a special word to explain why this is ok for me? But as you say it may just be the way that 'kids nowadays' express their objection to the rules of pink and blue behaviour, everything is just that bit more individualised and commoditised than it was when we were young(er).

 

[Santino]

I reckon the vast majority of people who feel they fit into one of these categories would never give a shit about having a flag anyway. It's just something that's pushed by vested interests in the calico industry.

Big Cotton

 

[8ball]

Is there a flag for "experiences weird sexual tension on buses and in dentists' waiting rooms"?

 

[8ball]

Found a gender role test online.

So not the same as this sexuality stuff, but in a related arena.
This is me:


Am inclined to think this is a big pile of shite.
Also wonder what the remaining 1% is.

edit: actually it's not meant to add up to 100%, so you could potentially be 75% masculine and 75% feminine, apparently...

 

[Spymaster]

Found a gender role test online.

View attachment 221120

What a load of bollocks.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Found a gender role test online.

So not the same as this sexuality stuff, but in a related arena.
This is me:

View attachment 221120
Am inclined to think this is a big pile of shite.
Also wonder what the remaining 1% is...

Fuck, what a load of shite. A collection of just about every gender stereotype going. Poisonous drivel imo.

 

[8ball]

What a load of bollocks.

Fuck, what a load of shite. A collection of just about every gender stereotype going. Poisonous drivel imo.

Inclined to agree, but answering a few questions to get some kind of graph is popular round these parts.
There seems to be a lot of research in this general area. Doesn't seem like a good use of grant money, especially when the underlying framework seems to be built on 1950s USA stereotypes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Inclined to agree, but answering a few questions to get some kind of graph is popular round these parts.
There seems to be a lot of research in this general area. Doesn't seem like a good use of grant money, especially when the underlying framework seems to be built on 1950s USA stereotypes.

Not saying I didn't do it. That's how I know what the questions were. But I could have predicted about 95% of them, and I could predict the presumed 'gender' of each I reckon by 100% accuracy.

 

[8ball]

Not saying I didn't do it. That's how I know what the questions were. But I could have predicted about 95% of them, and I could predict the presumed 'gender' of each I reckon by 100% accuracy.

Is this the point where Spymaster discovers he's a Brony?

 

[stethoscope]

Found a gender role test online.

These things are dreadful - see also the 'Cogiati' test which gained some 'notoriety' amongst the trans community many years ago, and sadly GICs could be pretty backward with using stereotypes when assessing trans people when at the time trans people had very little voice against a system they needed to provide them the support/pathway to surgery, etc. Some trans people feeling like they actively had to 'conform' to certain expectations of gender specialist shrinks to get where they wanted to get to. That did shift did massively over a 20 year period though.

Doesn't surprise me though these still seem to proliferate... I see 'gender critters' regularly wheeling these out as part of their arsenal for attacking trans and queer people 'coz all about gender stereotypes' which doesn't reflect certainly a lot of trans community that is as diverse as anyone else.

As for the stuff in Cloo's OP, it just makes me feel very old because I find it quite impenetrable and it seems to create more 'boxes' than we could alternatively free ourselves from - there's seems to be some conflation of what is actually personality/character traits? with trying to define terms of sexuality, gender, etc.

 

[8ball]

I see 'gender critters'...

Took me a few seconds to work out what these were.

 

[8ball]

As for the stuff in Cloo's OP, it just makes me feel very old because I find it quite impenetrable and it seems to create more 'boxes' than we could alternatively free ourselves from - there's seems to be some conflation of what is actually personality/character traits? with trying to define terms of sexuality, gender, etc.

It's teenagers being teenagers - it's supposed to be impenetrable to adults.
Just hope some of the benefits, like the openness and acceptance, persist when they move onto something else.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Fuck, what a load of shite. A collection of just about every gender stereotype going. Poisonous drivel imo.

At least it's brief and trivial enough not to be mistaken for anything remotely scientific, unlike far more widespread and far more damaging voodoo bullshit like Myers-Briggs.

 

[stethoscope]

Not on the big social media platforms myself, but there seems to be a 'thing' now where I've observed/heard about people encouraging others to state their Myers-Briggs type on profiles, etc. I always had big question marks over that too.

 

[8ball]

INTJ

 

[stethoscope]

Like probably half of the world, but then there's always someone that tells everyone they are special and one of the really rare types.

 

[8ball]

Like probably half of the world, but then there's always someone that tells everyone they are special and one of the really rare types.

I'd expect an ISFJ to say that.

 

[stethoscope]

I'd expect an ISFJ to say that.

(I had to google that!)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

At least it's brief and trivial enough not to be mistaken for anything remotely scientific, unlike far more widespread and far more damaging voodoo bullshit like Myers-Briggs.

Oh it clearly seeks to represent itself as scientific, hence the list of references underneath:

References
This test was constructed on the basis of the following studies:

• Donnelly & Twenge: Masculine and Feminine Traits on the Bem Sex-Role Inventory, 1993–2012: a Cross-Temporal Meta-Analysis (Sex Roles 0360-0025 2016)
• Holt & Ellis: Assessing the Current Validity of the Bem Sex-Role Inventory (Sex Roles Volume 39, Issue 11-12 1998)
• Lee & Kashubeck-West: Factor Structure of the Bem Sex Role Inventory in Samples of Ethnically Diverse Young Adults in the U.S. (Journal of Asia Pacific Counseling 2015)
• Robinson, Shaver & Wrightsman (eds.): Measures of Personality and Social Psychological Attitudes: Measures of Social Psychological Attitudes (Academic Press 2013)

 

[8ball]

Oh it clearly seeks to represent itself as scientific, hence the list of references underneath:

I thought it was just meant to show your rough match with cultural gender roles*.
As opposed to saying what you're really like particularly (ie. gender role vs. gender identity).

I'm inclined to think it's Bella magazine type toss rather than anything nasty (though someone above said it had been used to attack trans people ).

* - specifically the ones of 1958 suburban Massachusetts