Are unmarked police cars required to have blue lights?
- Thread starter nick h.
- Start date
No. They are not required to have either (and, until relatively recently, most had neither).
In terms of traffic law they have the same exceptions as marked police vehicles, but obviously without emergency warning equipment they are NOT properly equipped for pursuit or emergency response and drivers would be far, far more likely to be convicted of careless or dangerous driving if they undertook those roles.
Police policy (which is not law, but which could be the basis of disciplinary proceedings) would usually rule them out of participating in an emergency response or pursuit except in exceptional circumstances. There would also be restrictions based on the qualification level of the driver (which vary with forces). I think it is still the case that unmarked vehicles with blue lights and sirens can only be driven by advanced drivers in the Met ... but that may have changed as more such vehicles have become available.
In terms of traffic law they have the same exceptions as marked police vehicles, but obviously without emergency warning equipment they are NOT properly equipped for pursuit or emergency response and drivers would be far, far more likely to be convicted of careless or dangerous driving if they undertook those roles.
Police policy (which is not law, but which could be the basis of disciplinary proceedings) would usually rule them out of participating in an emergency response or pursuit except in exceptional circumstances. There would also be restrictions based on the qualification level of the driver (which vary with forces). I think it is still the case that unmarked vehicles with blue lights and sirens can only be driven by advanced drivers in the Met ... but that may have changed as more such vehicles have become available.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
q cars frequently have lights like those yankee ones you can stick on the roof
I've heard some plain clothes police don't carry ID and don't report to police stations, is this true? or was it on a late night movie?
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
I saw one today driving on the wrong side of the dual carriageway in Streatham, no blue lights and going like the clappers. I thought that was well iffy from a safety point of view.I'm getting increasingly fed up with them charging round with their sirens on but no fucking blue lights.Is it illegal? I do hope so - I want to make a complaint about the one I saw today.
The one I saw today was a Range Rover with its siren on and headlamps flashing doing about 50 in a 30 limit, overtaking on the inside in a bus lane, going through a red light outside a tube station with masses of pedestrians crossing the road. No blue light stuck on the roof. If it had blue lights concealed in the grille or behind the windscreen they weren't switched on. I couldn't find a relevant document on the Met or ACPO sites but I found some guidelines for a Welsh force saying that unmarked cars are required to have blue lights when running a red light. So I've complained to the Met. I didn't get the registration, but there can't be that many grey unmarked Range Rovers in London, and I gave the exact time and location. There were 3+ male uniformed occupants.
I'm a bit ticked off about this because lately there've been lots of unmarked cars with sirens on forcing their way through traffic in Brixton with tiny blue lights fitted low down. And they don't have the latest sirens which make it easier to tell which direction the vehicle's coming from either. I don't know whether any of this was a factor in the smash involving an unmarked car here the other day, but it seems blindingly obvious that unmarked cars need BIGGER blue lights than marked cars to make up for the fact that they're unmarked! A roof-mounted one is essential, even if there are extra ones lower down. Why the fuck they can't spend an extra £20 for a full size magnetic blue roof light is beyond me. They used to. I've seen plenty of decent sized ones in the past, so I don't understand why they're letting safety standards slip for unmarked cars while the standards for traffic cars seem to be under constant review. The Range Rover today took the fucking biscuit. There are already guidelines acknowledging that the poor handling of 4WDs is a hazard in blue light driving. Range Rover + no blue light + old fashioned siren + 50 mph in traffic + jumping lights at busy junctions = retarded nincompoops who need to be sent back to school before they kill somebody.
I've certainly noticed a shedload more unmarked cars over the past couple of years. To the point where I remember it was a bit of a novelty whereas today maybe 1 in 5 (v.rough guess) police cars I see with sirens are unmarked.
I agree, they are a bad idea when driven as they often are.
I agree, they are a bad idea when driven as they often are.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
That's the idea, right up to the point where they decide that it's time to arrest the bad guys, and a high speed chase ensues.
It's kind of surprising, though. Around here, there have been a number of serious crashes/fatalities involving police cars involved in pursuits, and from what I've seen in the media, it's almost always regular marked cars with full lights.
Yep - I've come across unmarked cars with siren but no lights in Brixton recently when cycling, and it's not good - esp with those sirens that aren't good at giving directional sound. And that unmarked cars are generally inconspicuous looking things.
Definitely dangerous - it's unnerving being able to hear the siren is very close to you but having no where exactly.
Definitely dangerous - it's unnerving being able to hear the siren is very close to you but having no where exactly.
There are some at the very highest levels of surveillance and undercover deployment. But very small numbers.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
I once got pulled over by a police Land Rover on the motorway. I indicated to change from the middle to the outside lane, checked my mirror, began to move over and then on checking my mirror again, saw the van behind me swerve into the middle lane to avoid said Police Land Rover that was belting up the outside lane behind him. I moved quickly back to the middle lane, and only then did his lights come on and he pulled me over.
He proceeded to tell me it was my fault, gave me a lecture about the weight of a Land Rover, and that the reason was going so quickly because he was in pursuit of someone else - presumably they had committed a lesser crime than I, as he didn't see fit to put on his lights for them, nor did he decide to continue after them. Nor did he bother to show me the incident on his tv screen.
I was tempted to tell him he was driving like a fucking clown, but what's the point? He'd have probably ticketed me.
He proceeded to tell me it was my fault, gave me a lecture about the weight of a Land Rover, and that the reason was going so quickly because he was in pursuit of someone else - presumably they had committed a lesser crime than I, as he didn't see fit to put on his lights for them, nor did he decide to continue after them. Nor did he bother to show me the incident on his tv screen.
I was tempted to tell him he was driving like a fucking clown, but what's the point? He'd have probably ticketed me.
could you provide more details about their purpose and numbers?
Before I forget (again) to mention it, early tuesday afternoon there were half a dozen unmarked police cars with sirens and stick on blue lights streaming down Streatham High Rd, followed by a couple of normal police cars also with sirens & lights - WTF?
The vehicle you describe was probably an armed response unit or a bomb disposal unit (far more likely the former) using the equipment that they have been provided with to do their job (i.e. protect the public from someone arnmed with a firearm or other deadly weapon) to the best of their ability. By all means slag off the organisation for providing them with inappropriate equipment. Do not call them nincompoops for doing their best with what they have been given. They don't get to choose the vehicles and equipment they are given.= retarded nincompoops who need to be sent back to school before they kill somebody.
As I've posted before, that is POLICY, not LAW and it applies only in the force concerned. It is probably linked with police vehicles being caught on speed and traffic light cameras, in which case cancellation of the FPN will only be considered if the vehicle is on blue lights. It has absolutely no relevance in any other area than the force concerned.
The clue is in the quote. Surveillance. And undercover operations. And small numbers.
Obviously
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
especially small numbers, or - as the police term it - nanomathematics. nanomathematics, the science of very small numbers, is a hot topic in police science, as some of britain's top mathematicians try to calculate the numbers of brain cells each police officer possesses and how best to utilise this unique resource.Obviously
preliminary findings will be published next week, but indications are that rather than the little grey cells private detectives like hercule poirot have, an individual copper may reasonably expect to have a little grey cell. if he's lucky.
Obviously
I would imagine that there are operations where, if you get found out, you're (possibly) dead. In that case, you don't want to be popping in to the nick for a cup of tea and a catch up.
Yes, obviously.Obviously
Surveillance is watching people (physically, from observation points, by following them about, using technical means). It doesn't work very well if you are in full uniform and plain clothes or if (as they have often been known to do) all the bad guys have to do is hang around outside the nick and note the descriptions and number plates of the unmarked cars coming in and out.
Undercover operations don't work too well in you may walk into the room and find youself face to face with a guy your nicked in uniform last week ... Or if they frisk you (they do, in real-life, as well as on the TV) and find your warrant card, etc. Or you're in the pictures they have taken of people going in and out of the nick (another thing which has happened many times before).
Small numbers means a few hundred. Most surveillance teams cannot afford the luxury of a non-police station base, etc. and the levels of target they work on do not merit it ... but a few of the highest level ones do. And there simply aren't a large number of undercover officers operating in that level of operation, full stop - maybe a few dozen nationwide.
I'm sure a moment's thought would have enabled you to work this out for yourself ... it's not exactly a secret ...
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