Anti-paedophile demo - Weymouth

[kenny g]

Seconded.
Nasty angry poor idiots that have been provoked by nasty manipulative rich idiots.

Isn't that a tad patronising?

Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they are manipulated.

It could be the other way around. Or perhaps you are wrong to posit nastiness on either side. Surely being concerned about community safety is a positive attribute?

 

[_angel_]

No I'm not. I'm quoting you.



This is a tabloid myth and completely untrue. I have posted reams of evidence to show this.



Throughout this thread I have been told that I am contemptous of the people in the OP. I look down on them. I have no respect for their "concerns" (All of which is true I am, I do and I don't) I mention the demonstrators because I want to question this groundswell of concern you claim exists. I don't see ordinary communities mobilising around a genuine concern. I don't see a crisis.

I see 50 idiots marching through the streets of Weymouth wearing Tshirts from one of the nastiest vigilante websites on the internet and spouting ill informed hysterical bollocks straight from the pages of the daily mail.

Yes but we've all moved on to talking about broader issues than the demonstration and that website. You actually would be helping dispel myths if there were actual facts allowed to people and no one is advocating tabloids printing names and addresses of anyone. You appear to be creating a false argument for anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[sabatical]

Baby P's stepfather badly scalded as boiling water is thrown over him by another inmate

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250715/Baby-Ps-stepfather-scalded-napalm-attack.html

Amazing how many comments at end of story....

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I could well believe it's a 'grass roots' thing, however contrived (and albeit by evangelical types).

It seems like they're simulating community order, since it obviously does not exist in reality.

 

[sabatical]

What's these about ?


http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/2010/02/justice-secretary-linked-to-lord.html

Sunday, February 14, 2010

Justice Secretary linked to Lord Advocate's lawyers after Police arrest journalist over reporting of Aberdeen Paedophile gang claims

---

http://www.ukcolumn.org/2010/02/11/angiolini-covering-for-paedophilia/

Angiolini: Covering for Paedophilia?
Article by Mike Robinson Feb 11th 2010

 

[dylans]

What's these about ?


http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/2010/02/justice-secretary-linked-to-lord.html

Sunday, February 14, 2010

Justice Secretary linked to Lord Advocate's lawyers after Police arrest journalist over reporting of Aberdeen Paedophile gang claims

---

http://www.ukcolumn.org/2010/02/11/angiolini-covering-for-paedophilia/

Angiolini: Covering for Paedophilia?
Article by Mike Robinson Feb 11th 2010

Conspiraloon nonsense.
The police investigated her 30 year old claims of high ranking paedophile rings (which supposedly included politicians and judges and cops )and found no evidence. Not happy with this, Loony journo Robert Green started handing out libellous flyers naming innocent people and accusing them of involvement and accusing high ranking police officers and the judiciary of covering up the story and was arrested for breach of the peace.
. Green claims there is a state cover up which includes the police, the judiciary, politicians and now even the BBC. He's a loon. This is a new spin on the old Satanic pedo gangs story.

If you want to really get to the paedophiles you should look at Westminster”. The implications of this statement are frightening – a paedophile ring amongst our political leaders – the political elite which has control of education and Social Services? The general public needs to open its eyes and confront this evil – and fast.

blah blah blah

 

[kenny g]

Pretty mad blogs are linked to.

How about this?


http://stolenkids-hollie.blogspot.com/2009/07/shocking-story-of-hollie-greig.html

http://gross-art.blogspot.com/

 

[dylans]

This is what happens when we start looking for monsters "out there" We posit an evil. a pedo, a trafficker, a groomer, a stranger, out there. Then whenever a tragedy occurs and some cunt does hurt a kid it confirms our worst fears and we start to see a crisis where none exists. There is no pedo crisis that needs to be addressed. Sexual offences against children are not increasing. But that doesn't fit with the narrative and so is ignored.
Instead fear drives people to seek out the monster and that fear is amplified by the media. Demands for new legislation are made by the tabloid press. They hit a populist note and amplify it further. Finally populist politicians pick up the ball and give it a respectable authority. This further amplifies the fears as people see the issue being aired by politicians, The media raise the volume and demand new legislation. The government, afraid of being seen as soft on crime pass new legislation. The cycle is complete until a new tragedy occurs and round we go again

 

[kenny g]

This is what happens when we start looking for monsters "out there" We posit an evil. a pedo, a trafficker, a groomer, a stranger, out there. Then whenever a tragedy occurs and some cunt does hurt a kid it confirms our worst fears and we start to see a crisis where none exists. There is no pedo crisis that needs to be addressed. Sexual offences against children are not increasing. But that doesn't fit with the narrative and so is ignored.
Instead fear drives people to seek out the monster and that fear is amplified by the media. Demands for new legislation are made by the tabloid press. They hit a populist note and amplify it further. Finally populist politicians pick up the ball and give it a respectable authority. This further amplifies the fears as people see the issue being aired by politicians, The media raise the volume and demand new legislation. The government, afraid of being seen as soft on crime pass new legislation. The cycle is complete until a new tragedy occurs and round we go again

OK, it is a nice theory but the fact is that even if there is a cycle, somewhere in that cycle there is a reality, which is that children are abused and hurt by paedophile beasts. Whatever the role of the meejah there is still something that needs to be tackled. A public register of convicted paedophiles would help to tackle that and reduce fear. It would identify the bogeymen and by doing so would stop them being bogeymen, they would become known individuals for children and parents to avoid.

Your argument is like someone denying that pit bull terriors are a problem just because the Dangerous Dogs Act was passed as a result of a summer media frenzy. Dangerous dogs are still an issue whatever has been said about them in the meejah.

 

[dylans]

The issue becomes a moral panic when the response is disproportionate to the threat. Dangerous dogs act is a good example of a pointless and unnecessary law enacted on the back of a moral panic. Demands for more child abuse legislation are another.

There was no need for the dangerous dogs act and there is no need for Sarah's law.

Oh and er..pit bulls aren't really a problem either

 

[kenny g]

Oh and er..pit bulls aren't really a problem either

Yeh, er right:

picture of child scalped by pitbull

your position kind of proves my point.

 

[dylans]

Yeh, er right:

picture of child scalped by pitbull

your position kind of proves my point.

I'm sure I could find pictures of people injured by rusty nails on google if I tried. Doesn't mean we need legislation to deal with the growing rusty nail crisis does it?

 

[kenny g]

I'm sure I could find pictures of people injured by rusty nails on google if I tried. Doesn't mean we need legislation to deal with the growing rusty nail crisis does it?

Not a very convincing argument. Google pitbull injuries and you will find stacks of horrific injuries. Rusty nails, nothing, this is despite tetanus.

Are you denying that pitbulls attack children. Or is it all a media scare and therefore untrue?

 

[_angel_]

If legislation was already used properly (ie dogs roaming being taken more seriously) prob there wouldn't have been a need for any more of it however, some dogs are more dangerous than others, altho I can think of plenty that are dangerous beside just pitbulls.

(And this is a separate thread but "moral" panic?? I actually do tend to panic when I see one of those dogs yep)

 

[kenny g]

little dogs tend to bite more often statistically but the point is that their bites are considerably less effective than the banned breeds.

 

[dylans]

I'm starting a campaign for Dylans law. Yesterday I scratched my foot badly on a rusty nail. This has to stop. ENOUGH! It is obvious that the incidents of rusty nail scratches has been growing unchecked for a long time and do gooding Governments have done NOTHING. Well we at the CDL (Campaign for Dylans Law) Demand something be done. We demand

*A public register of all rusty nail cases to be accessed by the public.

*The registration of all nail sales and the public shaming of those irresponsible hardware stores that sell to the under 21s

*Mandatory prison sentences to those sellers in the event of Rusty nail tragedies.

Join us now. Write to your MP and ask them what they are doing about the rusty nail crisis and demand they support Dylans law now

DYLANS LAW. TOGETHER WE CAN NAIL IT!

 

[gentlegreen]

yuck,

that made me feel all queazy.

 

[kenny g]

You remind me of Jean Baudrillard, the French philosopher who argues that the 1991 Iraq war did not take place because it was a media event.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IGswfqekMuQC&dq=The+Gulf+War+Did+Not+Take+Place+(Paperback)&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=W0eAS9zXCY2OjAel0fjMBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

To quote the introduction from page 6

"They occasionally force the facts to fit their own rhetorical oppositions"

Pretty much sums up your tactics.

 

[dylans]

You. Kenny G. Will you support my campaign against the evils of Rusty Nails or not? What say you? Join me in this heroic campaign against the evil of Rusty Nails that is sweeping the nation. Together we can end this rising tragedy.

Support Dylan's Law!

 

[kenny g]

You may mock, but some may find the denying of, and then the ridiculing of, the plight of maimed and abused children somewhat distasteful.

 

[dylans]

You may mock, but some may find the denying of, and then the ridiculing of, the plight of maimed and abused children somewhat distasteful.

I'm not mocking. I'm setting up a facebook group. Do you have any idea how many people are injured by rusty nails every day. Well, er, neither do I but I'm sure its loads. And SOMETHING MUST BE DONE. We urgently need new legislation to deal with this scourge and shame the do gooder politicians into action.

Kenny. Comrade. Join me in this crusade. We urgently need your erudite and intelligent contribution to the cause. What do you say?
TOGETHER WE CAN NAIL IT.

 

[dylans]

You remind me of Jean Baudrillard, the French philosopher who argues that the 1991 Iraq war did not take place because it was a media event.





Pretty much sums up your tactics.

Well I will take that as a compliment because Baudrillard's 3 essays are a brilliant analysis of the way that war was packaged and presented.

You have actually read those essays right? Because if you have you would realise that Baudrillard is not saying that conflict didn't actually take place, rather he questions the reality of events compared to the way those events were presented to us. the way the war was presented as entertainment and branded by the news networks. The high tech images of smart bombs falling, the embedded journalists etc, all created a situation in which the reality of what we were watching on our TV screens bore little relation to the reality on the ground.

When he says the war didn't happen, he is saying that the one sided nature of the conflict makes us question whether it should be called a "war" at all. Perhaps the word "slaughter" is more appropriate given that casualties were almost entirely Iraqi.( 100.000 Iraqi casualties compared to 213 Allied troops-and most of those killed by their own side)

I think his analysis can be applied very appropriately to the way that modern media inspired moral panics present hyper reality versions of events and spin them into distorted versions of reality for our consumption. A child murder or similar tragedy becomes cause for a panic about "rising tides of pedophiles" when the reality is it is an isolated tragedy. A single animal attack becomes a panic over "killer dogs savaging the public" where the reality is that dog attacks haven't significantly risen etc.

"a masquerade of information: branded faces delivered over to the prostitution of the image, the image of an unintelligible distress" (Baudrillard 2001, 40)

.

The pedo in the park or the vicious animal fit this idea of the image of what is real being presented as the real but is not real. Rather, what is presented is a media spectacle in place of reality. A packaged and ideologically spun image of reality that we accept and believe.

To be honest. Given the way you present Baudrillard's essays as claiming that the conflict didn't occur (not his position at all) I have to think you haven't actually read him have you?

But we digress. Have you any opinions on my rusty nail panic.( er I mean urgent campaign) I have considered contacting the sun.What do you think of my latest flyer?

Kenny G Google pitbull injuries and you will find stacks of horrific injuries. Rusty nails, nothing, this is despite tetanus

You callous bastard. You vicious rusty nail loving scum. Denying the reality of the rusty nail crisis. Kids will have nails in their feet tonight because of YOU. I hope you can sleep at night Kenny. It's because of people like you that the rusty nail filth continue to maim and and, well, maim and maim OUR CHILDREN. Think of the children Kenny. Please, think of the children. SUPPORT DYLAN'S LAW

 

[kenny g]

A single animal attack becomes a panic over "killer dogs savaging the public" where the reality is that dog attacks haven't significantly risen etc.

A child murder or similar tragedy becomes cause for a panic about "rising tides of pedophiles" when the reality is it is an isolated tragedy.

But they aren't isolated attacks, that is the whole point. You are letting your theory cloud your vision.

 

[_angel_]

Well, I'm glad the packs of dogs running around my old estate were all in my imagination!

 

[dylans]

But they aren't isolated attacks, that is the whole point. You are letting your theory cloud your vision.

But rusty nail accidents aren't isolated incidents either. Despite your refusal to recognise the seriousness of the rusty nail crisis, THEY ARE REAL.

You see. I can take incidents of accidents such as this and spin a crisis out of it. Examples of rusty nail incidents are undoubtedly real and I can find lots if I look hard enough. What isn't real is my attempt to make it a campaign issue. This is exactly what the media have done over recent years over pedohiles, dangerous dogs, knife crime, ecstacy, methadrone, etc.

My mockery isn't of the victims of incidents related to these issues. They are undoubtedly real. The mockery is of the spin that is given to them and the way the response is disproportionate to the threat.

So are you going to support my campaign for Dylan's Law or not Kenny? What about you Angel. Are you going to stand up for the children who are maimed by rusty nails? Are you going to join me and demand that something be done? SUPPORT DYLAN'S LAW NOW!

*Ban the sale of nails to under 21s

*Demand the public registration of all nail sales and the licencing of all hardware stores who stock this dangerous product.

*Enforce mandatory prison sentences for the sellers of nails that lead to accidents.

* Criminalise the irresponsible use and casual discarding of rusty nails.

* Public naming and shaming of rusty nail offenders.

 

[kenny g]

The mockery is of the spin that is given to them and the way the response is disproportionate to the threat.

The position that I have repeatedly offered is that the publishing of the identities of convicted paedophiles along with details of the offence for which they have been convicted would not be disproportionate to the threat.

You originally stated that there was no threat from strangers.

You have now moved on from that position to claiming that the threat is a product of a mass panic, and that by engineering a mass panic the media is able to make anything appear suitable for regulatory control.

Well, your sick satire rather proves my point. It is absurd and the reason it is absurd is because it is completely disproportionate to the threat.

There is ample evidence that children are attacked by paedophiles. Identifying them to help improve community safety is a proportionate act.

Similarly, ensuring that large, strong dogs bred for fighting are muzzled and neutered is proportionate when you consider what they are capable of, and the horrific injuries that have taken place.

You have denied both threats which is what is really absurd about your position.

 

[dylans]

It is absurd and the reason it is absurd is because it is completely disproportionate to the threat.

Yes it is. Just like Sarah's law legislation. I rest my case.

the threat is a product of a mass panic, and that by engineering a mass panic the media is able to make anything appear suitable for regulatory control.

You took the words right out of my mouth

(So I guess you aren't going to join my campaign for Dylan's law then?)

 

[kenny g]

You have now moved on from that position to claiming that the threat is a product of a mass panic, and that by engineering a mass panic the media is able to make anything appear suitable for regulatory control.

was what I said. I do not think that the media can make the absurd appear reasonable to the degree that you appear to. As with your rusty nail example, it still appears absurd whatever the gloss because it is completely disproportionate.

Requiring that the public be able to know about convicted paedophiles living in their communities is not disproportionate.

 

[dylans]

]kenny g I do not think that the media can make the absurd appear reasonable to the degree that you appear to.

Really? Did you see this in the drug forum?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/8519550.stm

A former user told the BBC he was funding his £200 a day habit through selling everything he had, then stealing and ended up sleeping in a public toilet.

Now the claim that someone has a £200 a day Meph habit is blatantly absurd. That's nearly 30 grams a day! An impossible amount. This is an absolutely absurd story.

But because of reporting like this and similar scare stories about ecstacy and skunk we have the making of a moral panic. The clamoring to make or keep these drugs illegal, harsher sentences etc.. The facts (that ecstacy is far far safer than alcohol for example) are distorted and hidden in favour of the panic. Facts go out the window in favour of sensation. Swine Flu, the black death, terrorists, online sex traffickers, knife crime, dangerous dogs, head bangers, it is an old old story.

Here is an example of a scare story about hoodies.

Makes my rusty nail campaign seem almost reasonable.

 

[kenny g]

Do you believe there is no substance to anything the media report? How about the Haiti earthquake?