eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Why is the BBC website showing a potted explanation of Asperger's at the end of their lead article, as if this is the root of the investigation? This is concerning.
Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)
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maomao
普費斯
Adam Lanza had it (far more seriously as well I think). Have they managed to 'link' that yet?
Cheesy was referring to his own comments earlier in the thread not attacking anyone
Well obviously I didn't understand that. It wasn't clear to me.
There were others who have stated that though and it winds me up.
Sorry, I didn't realise that's what you were saying.
SpineyNorman
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that's because you're not as clever as you think you are. if ones will is constrained then by definition it cannot be free.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
SpineyNorman
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if only there were some middle ground between free will and your vulgar brand of determinism...
ice-is-forming
I was born naked, shameless & fucking outrageous..
you left your caps lock off. jeez
go and find another thread to argue free will' on. this ones about someone.. we dont know enough about.. to speculate on & 10 dead people 
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yeah came across I'm not saying he was. In fact I'm probably only saying came across because he just reminds me of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, crass I know but that's who I thought of when I watched it, that and Kevin Spacey's character in Seven.
Treacle Toes
Time
3 dead at the apartment block makes 10 surely
In what way is he being deterministic? He's not stated x circumstances = y outcome.
SpineyNorman
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how's about you stop trying to tell people what they can and can't discuss you self righteous prick?you left your caps lock off. jeez
SpineyNorman
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he's explicitly denied that he had any choice in the matter and denounced any claim to the contrary - however qualified - as 'free will'. not sure how else that can be interpreted.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I think you're getting confused between psychosis and psychopathy.
Your formulation implies that we know all the determining factors. I don't know if johnny believes that to be the case.
It is but on the other hand it shows the same kind of respect for psychiatric and medical viewpoints that have been posted on this thread. Mental illness as defined by psychiatrists vs being a cunt. Psychosis as defined by psychiatrists vs being a misogynist creep.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Fair enough, either way it was a flippant remark tbh.
Having just skimmed bits of his 'manifesto' he doesn't strike me as someone mentally ill, although I haven't read all of it, the bits I have read just seem to be 'boo hoo girls don't like me, boo hoo high school, boo hoo I had to transfer my World of Warcraft character.' Seems he's planned it all out, has all his faculties in place but is just an angry, misogynistic kid who decided to do what he did. As frogwoman said earlier it's not always to do with mental illness sometimes people are just cunts.
Being mentally ill and being a nasty fucker are not mutually exclusive.
And how would mental illness strike you?
I'm talking about how the incident is being framed. I'm suggesting that the medical model of mental illness gets in the way of us being able to make sense of these kinds of incidents.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yes alright, mentally inculpable for his actions then Mr Pedant.
I've read some of it this morning as well, and at first I had the same impression as you but the fury he starts to feel and display when he sees couples together is something else.
That's why there are community mental health services on the one hand and places like Rampton on the other. There's something called dual-diagnosis that can apply in various instances such as substance abuse and learning difficulties for example.
turing test
Nearly Toowrong
No matter how crazy you are, you can buy a gun in Walmart, and the bullets to go with it. That is the problem.
I'm a ms.
I'm not being a pedant, I'm curious about your view of how you would be able to detect mental illness. I'm not interested in legalistic notions of culpability.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Yes...it's difficult to diagnose early and can be misdiagnosed as psychosis.
Looking at his other videos posted on youtube and taking into account his asperghers diagnosis, his method of communication in his videos and the way he expresses his loneliness may come across as a bit strange, self centered, odd, ...but bear in mind he's been doing things he thinks will make him fit in and failing. He talks about how he tries to look good, drives a bmw, has expensive sun glasses...he acts out trying to look cool in his car videos...he doesn't understand how to be with people and be normal....or what is thought of as normal. He thinks looking and acting a certain way is how to be normal. He doesnt understand why its not working for him. He is immature and his view of his world is not that of a 22 year old. He was still uploading and liking pokemon songs... There is a childishness to his view of the world. He may have been rejected once or twice....and for a normal teen/young adult they'd brush it off and get on with life, but he becomes obsessed and fixated....
There's no doubt that his asperghers had some influence on his thoughts, fixations, obsessions.
His extreme "pain" is related to his own extreme feelings of rejection magnified by his fixation on himself and his recognition that he cant figure out how to mix with others. He's intelligent so it's frustrating him even more because he feels he should be able to do "normal" and that's the crux really. He is acting a part....trying to act normal...failing...so he fixates, and resents, and in his mind every experience is logged as positive or negative and the negative experiences carry an extra loading of emotional pain. A throwaway comment becomes rejection, in his eyes. and when he remembers it the pain returns only magnified...so he's constantly living in a self imposed, uncontrolled post traumatic stress state. He blames his situation on others because in his mind he's done everything to fit in. He's ticked all the superficial boxes..looks good, has car, sunglasses ...so it cant be him. It's everyone else. ....
What tipped him over the edge and towards plotting to kill people is something other than his Asperghers....that needs to be looked at as it's happened before with at least two other shootings carried out by young men with asperghers.
According to disputed research 3% of people suffering from asperghers have violent outburts. The figure is disputed as many people living with someone with asperghers who is violent, do not report it. Uncontrolled violent outbursts are a problem for a small percentage of autistic and asperghers sufferers. Behavioural modification is obviously necessary but increasingly there is acceptance that other causes and symptoms need to be investigated and addressed... such as diet, heavy metal absorption, gut problems, severe depression, drug reactions and so much more.....it's recognised that a full regular medical check up is more important for them than people not suffering from ASD. Some have tried taking antibiotics regularly and research is showing some interesting results there.
There are so many things that can happen with ASD. There needs to be a lot more research into causes and treatments.
This particular mass killing was preventable, in my view. The police did not do enough to stop this killing. They had access to his videos... They had already been contacted by his parents who knew that their son was planning something. He was very clear in his intent and it seems now that the police didnt pursue it because he came across as polite and calm ........emotionless . Red flags were everywhere. He was a bomb waiting to go off in plain sight.
This is the third mass murder committed by disillusioned young men who also have a diagnosis of high functioning asperghers and easy access to weapons. I'm not blaming the asperghers in case anyone thinks I am... This young man should and could have been stopped. His fixations should have been mapped, noted , responded to, managed, and redirected. .
True that ASD doesn't make killers. No more than diabetes makes a killer.
This lads thinking is highly rational to him.. He cant understand the rejection because he's done everything right...in his mind. So he concludes everyone else is wrong and fixates on the girls who "hurt him". Bear in mind his own hurt is magnified because of his impaired emotional understanding of others..........
It's extremely sad for everyone involved because it was preventable.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Good point. First heard about it without any real detail and thought it was some mentally ill kid who had gone off the deep end in a tragic way but it's harder to feel any sympathy with the killer when you see more details, and especially that video (which shows normal eye contact with camera, sense of grandiosity, lack of affective empathy - all more 'psychopath' than 'Aspie').
Then again, any labels they come out with, even down to the level of 'mad' or 'bad' are just a way of distancing him from 'people like us' - which maybe I'm doing in the above paragraph to a degree.
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