Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[weltweit]

I don't want to encourage people to read the thing but people are projecting their interpretation onto it without reading what he actually said.

To be fair, it is quite a large document.

 

[SpineyNorman]

People don't normally become spree killers over that though do they?

No. Do you honestly think I was arguing that they did or that this was the sole cause? I've been arguing against that kind of simplistic approach for the last few pages. My point is precisely that there were clearly a variety of factors at play here and it is an act of stupidity to try and isolate a single 'cause', whether that's aspergers, misogyny, the sense of entitlement that comes from that kind of upbringing or anything else.

 

[weltweit]

No. Do you honestly think I was arguing that they did or that this was the sole cause? I've been arguing against that kind of simplistic approach for the last few pages. My point is precisely that there were clearly a variety of factors at play here and it is an act of stupidity to try and isolate a single 'cause', whether that's aspergers, misogyny, the sense of entitlement that comes from that kind of upbringing or anything else.

Well then, we are in agreement, there were a combination of factors which caused him to go off the rails.

 

[smmudge]

His manifesto explains in great detail what caused it but you and the majority don't seem to want to listen. It couldn't be clearer imo. It was the Aspergers combined with a personality disorder probably. Knowing what caused it evidently isn't going to help though - I've got Aspergers and I don't' get any support from the system - just a label that's stigmatised me. He was in therapy from childhood - some good that did him!

Aspergers is only of use to get a lesser sentence in court imo - it's f-king useless as a way of getting any kind of understanding or support!

Well going around equating Aspergers with violent criminal isn't going to help the cause any.

 

[weltweit]

According to his own account, after he posted videos to youtube the police visited him, possibly because they thought he might be suicidal. He didn't let them into his room and they left. Why did the police not know that he (someone they obviously thought was unstable) had bought not one but three handguns recently. One handgun would be enough to commit suicide but three suggested other motives.

So, why were the local police not aware that he had recently bought three handguns?

 

[8ball]

No. Do you honestly think I was arguing that they did or that this was the sole cause? I've been arguing against that kind of simplistic approach for the last few pages. My point is precisely that there were clearly a variety of factors at play here and it is an act of stupidity to try and isolate a single 'cause', whether that's aspergers, misogyny, the sense of entitlement that comes from that kind of upbringing or anything else.

There is a lot of opportunism happening - lots of interested groups trying to use this case to bolster their cause. It's not edifying.

 

[SpineyNorman]

According to his own account, after he posted videos to youtube the police visited him, possibly because they thought he might be suicidal. He didn't let them into his room and they left. Why did the police not know that he (someone they obviously thought was unstable) had bought not one but three handguns recently. One handgun would be enough to commit suicide but three suggested other motives.

So, why were the local police not aware that he had recently bought three handguns?

Good question. If I was a copper and someone showed me those videos and said they were concerned he might be a danger to himself/others I think one of my first reactions would be to try and see whether he had access to lethal weapons of any kind. Sounds like a fuck up to me, and as usual innocent people paid the price

 

[ViolentPanda]

And what isn't the plural of anecdote?

Your mother fellating a mongoose?

 

[SpineyNorman]

There is a lot of opportunism happening - lots of interested groups trying to use this case to bolster their cause. It's not edifying.

Innit. The use of tragedy to cynically promote a political agenda is never a good look.

 

[ViolentPanda]

you don't speak for me or the majority of those with Aspergers, just the 'success stories'

I haven't claimed to do so.

bear in mind that the remonstration you make to me above, applies to you too. You don't speak for the majority of people with Asperger's Syndrome, either.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What would constitute an acceptable suicide rate?

No figure constitutes an acceptable suicide rate, you fuckwit!
What I was drawing attention to was that saying "a lot" is meaningless - it indicates nothing except a volume greater than "a few".

 

[8ball]

I haven't claimed to do so.

No, but you have chosen a case that is a definite exception - people with socially processing issues are, on average, disadvantaged at a range of social functions.

Your friend with AS very likely has been helped along by a good deal of luck, support (whether formal or informal) and compensating personality traits.

If someone chose Stephen Hawking as an example of why people with motor neurone disease should be considered fit to work I know for a fact that you'd cry foul.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm don't think I want to know any more!

You mean you haven't read the decade-spanning dog-fucker thread?

 

[8ball]

No figure constitutes an acceptable suicide rate, you fuckwit!
What I was drawing attention to was that saying "a lot" is meaningless - it indicates nothing except a volume greater than "a few".

And saying "most don't" indicates nothing more than a rate less than 50%, cuntybollocks.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You mean you haven't read the decade-spanning dog-fucker thread?

You know that thing when you drive past a car crash and get the urge to have a look even though you really don't want to see it? I've got that kind of feeling about this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, but you have chosen a case that is a definite exception - people with socially processing issues are, on average, disadvantaged at a range of social functions.

So actually, my friend isn't a "definite exception" at all, he's actually on the upper part of a trend curve of what people with AS might achieve (given that an "average" would indicate trends and outliers in either direction).

Your friend with AS very likely has been helped along by a good deal of luck, support (whether formal or informal) and compensating personality traits.

As a "definite exception", doesn't that mean that almost all other people with AS don't benefit from such things? Smells like the brown stuff to me!

If someone chose Stephen Hawking as an example of why people with motor neurone disease should be considered fit to work I know for a fact that you'd cry foul.

Only if Stephen Hawking was being held up as an example for all people with MND, regardless of the massive amount of care he can afford, that others cannot.

The problem with generalising from a specific case is it's pointless, which is why I didn't generalise from my friend's case - I merely put it out there as an anecdote of someone whose lived reality differed from the reality nessa239 was proposing as a norm for "many" people with AS.

 

[equationgirl]

According to his own account, after he posted videos to youtube the police visited him, possibly because they thought he might be suicidal. He didn't let them into his room and they left. Why did the police not know that he (someone they obviously thought was unstable) had bought not one but three handguns recently. One handgun would be enough to commit suicide but three suggested other motives.

So, why were the local police not aware that he had recently bought three handguns?

Sometimes it can be as simple as paperwork not getting to the right place at the right time (hence the need for national databases, not just state ones). Of course, if the guns were bought illegally or in a less than strictly manner, there might be no records the police can check.

 

[Greebo]

I do actually. If he'd had his dick sucked by a feminist as I have (she didn't know my politics) he would never have killed anyone. I blame feminists who, incidentally, aren't very good at sucking dick.

A sample of one does not equal all. Also, assuming that you're correct, he'd have got one of the worst blow jobs ever and in all probability remained angry about the mismatch between his experience and what he'd been led to expect.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Was this a spree in the sense we are talking about here or more of a 'run' as in just doing the quiet serial killing thing but incorporating some economies of scale?

He killed a couple of people over the course of about a year, got involved with Fugate and spree-killed her family, then did the great "American drifter" schtick of seeing how many the pair of them could kill before they bought the farm, so halfway between the two types, I'd say. Thrill-kill fans tend to elide his early "career" because it doesn't fit the whole "thrill-kill nihilism" POV.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Sometimes it can be as simple as paperwork not getting to the right place at the right time (hence the need for national databases, not just state ones). Of course, if the guns were bought illegally or in a less than strictly manner, there might be no records the police can check.

Do we know when he bought them? Just thinking about this, I guess it's possible that when the police visited he hadn't bought them yet - which would be sensible from his (twisted) point of view - buy them right at the last minute and there's less time for anyone who's worried about what you might get up to finding out you've got guns.

 

[SpineyNorman]

A sample of one does not equal all. Also, assuming that you're correct, he'd have got one of the worst blow jobs ever and in all probability remained angry about the mismatch between his experience and what he'd been led to expect.

Maybe she just struggled to find it and that's why it wasn't satisfactory?

 

[8ball]

The problem with generalising from a specific case is it's pointless, which is why I didn't generalise from my friend's case - I merely put it out there as an anecdote of someone whose lived reality differed from the reality nessa239 was proposing as a norm for "many" people with AS.

Please try harder - I've come to expect a better class of disingenuous sophistry from you.

Oh, and ironing. So much of it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fair enough. This is one of the things that is particularly hard for Aspies - getting a grasp on the adaptable mendacity that is required to be properly 'normal'.

Or "having different facets for different situations", as my mate calls it. He's always treated it as acting a role, which is actually quite close to what neurotypical people (unacknowledgedly and non-consciously, largely!) actually do.

 

[8ball]

Or "having different facets for different situations", as my mate calls it. He's always treated it as acting a role, which is actually quite close to what neurotypical people (unacknowledgedly and non-consciously, largely!) actually do.

Yeah, Paddy Considine said when diagnosed that maybe he was good at acting because he was always acting anyway. You're correct about the role playing being unconscious in the NT case, but also the moving from role to role is a lot harder for an Aspie (it's easier if the role is consistent).

I'm bad at playing roles so I have a battery of "tricks" instead, but a lot of Aspies have issues with finding this an acceptable way to live (I do too, to be fair).

 

[ViolentPanda]

People don't normally become spree killers over that though do they?

People become spree-killers over just about anything, from perceived slights, to getting short-changed.

 

[Manter]

A sample of one does not equal all. Also, assuming that you're correct, he'd have got one of the worst blow jobs ever and in all probability remained angry about the mismatch between his experience and what he'd been led to expect.

I wouldn't have read his post if you hadn't quoted it (I'm skim reading the thread)... Who is this guy? Eyw..... Creepy MRA weirdness

 

[8ball]

People become spree-killers over just about anything, from perceived slights, to getting short-changed.

I think you're being disingenuous again - you're much more pleasant to talk to when you don't do this.

 

[weltweit]

Do we know when he bought them? Just thinking about this, I guess it's possible that when the police visited he hadn't bought them yet - which would be sensible from his (twisted) point of view - buy them right at the last minute and there's less time for anyone who's worried about what you might get up to finding out you've got guns.

According to his own manifesto he bought one legally before the police visited him. There was a delay before he could take delivery so he could be checked out. He commented delivery would be in time for his plans. I didn't read about the other two guns.

eta: and he also said it was lucky that the police didn't go into his room, presumably because there was incriminating evidence in there.

 

[likesfish]

The US is massively against gun databases because
A the whole it will allow goverment to confiscate mah guns
B this happened in ny and la which was stunningly stupid because they'd promised not to do that and semi automatic rifles are a minor problem.

 

[killer b]

You know that thing when you drive past a car crash and get the urge to have a look even though you really don't want to see it? I've got that kind of feeling about this.

only 8 years tbf