Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[SpineyNorman]

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/16/men-less-likely-identify-sexism/ SpineyNorman weepiper Belushi anyone else interested - I suggest reading the full report. Very interesting

where's the bit about UKIP mate, can't see it?

 

[nessa239]

You missed the word "pathological". Nice bit of selective comprehension.



A majority of persons "with Aspergers" don't kill themselves, so "a lot" is hyperbolic.


What you mean (but are too wise to state openly) is that I don't have Asperger's Syndrome, and am therefore not "qualified" to say anything.
You're right - I don't have Asperger's Syndrome. My neurological problems are entirely different.
What I do have is a good working knowledge of forensic psychology, and how different forms of disorder exert effects.

you don't speak for me or the majority of those with Aspergers, just the 'success stories'

 

[frogwoman]

where's the bit about UKIP mate, can't see it?

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/axn9p3h3s0/YG-Archive-140512-Sexism.pdf
Here

 

[SpineyNorman]

Darren? is that you?

who?

 

[nessa239]

I doubt many would deny his aspergers played some kind of role. The problem is you're trying to make it the determining factor when it clearly wasn't since the proportion of people with aspergers who do this kind of thing is so small as to be negligible.

there were found to be a higher than average number of people in Broadmoor with Aspergers Some of the schizophenics had been mistakenly diagnosed as well and had Aspergers instead

file:///G:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Vanessa/My%20Documents/Downloads/J-Crocombe-The-prevalence-of-autistic-spectrum-condition-in-one-special-hospital.pdf

I can never work out what people 'want' the problem to be to be quite honest

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think if you're the sort of person who writes a manifesto, it already says a lot about you.

Depends who you're writing it for. The Unabomber was writing his for posterity (as, I suspect, was Rodger). Marx, on the other hand, was writing his for the movement.

 

[8ball]

A majority of persons "with Aspergers" don't kill themselves, so "a lot" is hyperbolic.

What would constitute an acceptable suicide rate?

 

[killer b]

who?

darren dogbummer. TBH it probably only means anything to ViolentPanda

 

[SpineyNorman]

there were found to be a higher than average number of people in Broadmoor with Aspergers Some of the schizophenics had been mistakenly diagnosed as well and had Aspergers instead

I can never work out what people 'want' the problem to be to be quite honest

I don't want it to be anything, I'd rather it didn't exist. I want to find out what the problem was. It's revealing that you see it in terms of what people want it to be though. Suggests to me that you want it to be simply about aspergers and nothing more.

That there are more aspies in broadmoor suggests that it was a factor, nothing more. You're trying to identify aspergers as a monocausal explanation. You're wrong.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They were serial killers. He was a spree killer. Very different phenomenon.

Although it's possible to be both (Starkweather, for example).

 

[ViolentPanda]

darren dogbummer. TBH it probably only means anything to ViolentPanda

Only because I knew him, I hasten to add!

 

[SpineyNorman]

Only because I knew him, I hasten to add!

I'm don't think I want to know any more!

 

[8ball]

Although it's possible to be both (Starkweather, for example).

Not familiar with the case but my understanding up to now was that you only got the one proper 'spree' unless you were shilling for a Government.

 

[frogwoman]

I think that serial killers are also often influenced by misogyny tbh.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Buying into such cultural phenomena is one of the benchmarks of what is considered normal.

How deeply you do so is also indicative of stepping outside the bounds of "normal", though.

 

[nessa239]

I don't want it to be anything, I'd rather it didn't exist. I want to find out what the problem was. It's revealing that you see it in terms of what people want it to be though. Suggests to me that you want it to be simply about aspergers and nothing more.

That there are more aspies in broadmoor suggests that it was a factor, nothing more. You're trying to identify aspergers as a monocausal explanation. You're wrong.

His manifesto explains in great detail what caused it but you and the majority don't seem to want to listen. It couldn't be clearer imo. It was the Aspergers combined with a personality disorder probably. Knowing what caused it evidently isn't going to help though - I've got Aspergers and I don't' get any support from the system - just a label that's stigmatised me. He was in therapy from childhood - some good that did him!

Aspergers is only of use to get a lesser sentence in court imo - it's f-king useless as a way of getting any kind of understanding or support!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not familiar with the case but my understanding up to now was that you only got the one proper 'spree' unless you were shilling for a Government.

Starkweather was a serial killer (his later crimes featuring an accomplice - Carole -Ann Fugate), but he also spree-killed (Fugate's family, for instance) during his serial-killer career.
A fairly decent film was made (eliding some of the more yucky elements) of Starkweather's "career" with Martin Sheen in the lead rold, titled "Badlands".

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think that serial killers are also often influenced by misogyny tbh.

Definitely - Ted Bundy is an obvious example. Another one with a superiority complex and sense of entitlement too.

 

[8ball]

How deeply you do so is also indicative of stepping outside the bounds of "normal", though.

Are you talking about the line between playing the game and believing in the game.

 

[frogwoman]

His manifesto explains in great detail what caused it but you and the majority don't seem to want to listen. It couldn't be clearer imo. It was the Aspergers combined with a personality disorder probably. Knowing what caused it evidently isn't going to help though - I've got Aspergers and I don't' get any support from the system - just a label that's stigmatised me. He was in therapy from childhood - some good that did him!

Aspergers is only of use to get a lesser sentence in court imo - it's f-king useless as a way of getting any kind of understanding or support!

So aspergers caused him to shoot several people and lure others to his home to be stabbed?

Fuck you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

....whose methods were revealed to the world by Edward Snowden, thus compromising them and making it harder to track terrorists

Yes, because GCHQ and signals intelligence interception are all there are to intelligence gathering, aren't they?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you talking about the line between playing the game and believing in the game.

Pretty much.

 

[8ball]

Starkweather was a serial killer (his later crimes featuring an accomplice - Carole -Ann Fugate), but he also spree-killed (Fugate's family, for instance) during his serial-killer career.
A fairly decent film was made (eliding some of the more yucky elements) of Starkweather's "career" with Martin Sheen in the lead rold, titled "Badlands".

Was this a spree in the sense we are talking about here or more of a 'run' as in just doing the quiet serial killing thing but incorporating some economies of scale?

 

[SpineyNorman]

His manifesto explains in great detail what caused it but you and the majority don't seem to want to listen. It couldn't be clearer imo. It was the Aspergers combined with a personality disorder probably. Knowing what caused it evidently isn't going to help though - I've got Aspergers and I don't' get any support from the system - just a label that's stigmatised me. He was in therapy from childhood - some good that did him!

Aspergers is only of use to get a lesser sentence in court imo - it's f-king useless as a way of getting any kind of understanding or support!

So you're taking a deluded spree killer at his word. Amazing. Not to mention that he gives a pretty good hint that misogyny, a vastly over-inflated ego, massive sense of entitlement and an obsession with material wealth that makes no sense outside the context of western consumerism and capitalism may have played a role.

The causes of this won't be simply internal - it won't be just about 'disorders' (which, by the way, cannot be separated from the process of socialisation anyway, as Red Cat 's excellent posts demonstrate) cultural and social factors are important too.

Support for people with aspergers (as with mental health care) is a disgrace - you won't find me disagreeing. But it looks like his parents bought him the best care money could buy - there's aspies living on housing projects in Baltimore who don't get anything like that support and don't murder people.

 

[8ball]

Pretty much.

Fair enough. This is one of the things that is particularly hard for Aspies - getting a grasp on the adaptable mendacity that is required to be properly 'normal'.

 

[frogwoman]

So you're taking a deluded spree killer at his word. Amazing. Not to mention that he gives a pretty good hint that misogyny, a vastly over-inflated ego, massive sense of entitlement and an obsession with material wealth that makes no sense outside the context of western consumerism and capitalism.

Does aspergers make someone into an obsessive misogynist cunt? In his manifesto he talks about his mates who had similar problems with women and some with poorer social skills than him but didn't share the same misogynist worldview, he goes on about how they are just 'weaklings'. Did you read the bit where his housemate brings home a girl and he mocks him because she's so ugly?

 

[8ball]

So you're taking a deluded spree killer at his word. Amazing. Not to mention that he gives a pretty good hint that misogyny, a vastly over-inflated ego, massive sense of entitlement and an obsession with material wealth that makes no sense outside the context of western consumerism and capitalism may have played a role.

Also the racism. Precious little mention of the racism in the media discussion of this case.

 

[weltweit]

Does aspergers make someone into an obsessive misogynist cunt? In his manifesto he talks about his mates who had similar problems with women and some with poorer social skills than him but didn't share the same misogynist worldview, he goes on about how they are just 'weaklings'. Did you read the bit where his housemate brings home a girl and he mocks him because she's so ugly?

No I didn't read that, how nasty.

 

[frogwoman]

No I didn't read that, how nasty.

I don't want to encourage people to read the thing but people are projecting their interpretation onto it without reading what he actually said.

 

[weltweit]

So you're taking a deluded spree killer at his word. Amazing. Not to mention that he gives a pretty good hint that misogyny, a vastly over-inflated ego, massive sense of entitlement and an obsession with material wealth that makes no sense outside the context of western consumerism and capitalism may have played a role.

People don't normally become spree killers over that though do they?