Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[8ball]

We're all born into the world naked and without knowledge. Then, education, good or ill, begins.

Tabula rasa arguments as well as hard determinism?

I guess 'shit happens' is the only possible response under the circumstances.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Think of your own personalities. People might be shy. They might be outgoing. Impulsive. Contemplative. Gregarious. Hostile. Or any combination.

Whatever your personality makeup is - did you choose it?

 

[8ball]

You cooled on that blank skate stuff pretty quickly.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

To go further, we all have personality traits that might not be optimum. Maybe it's social anxiety, social phobia, preventing a person from taking advantage of social or work situations in a way that they'd like.

This guy had personality problems, too. And we seem comfortable calling him a dick as a result, saying he should have chosen to be different.

Does that apply to the rest of us, too? If we have a shy personality, a social phobia, is the prescription to just 'shake it off'? Just be something different, someone different? It's pretty hard to do.

What name should be applied to the rest of us who have difficult aspects of our personalities that we don't seem to be able to discard, just like that?

 

[smmudge]

I really shouldn't have read that manifesto right before bed. And when I'm in the alone in the house. chilling.

 

[Red Cat]

I read some of his manifesto and it looks to me from that that he had been very disturbed for a long time, extremely paranoid, and grandiose as a defence against his deep feelings of humiliation. It seems to me that he was clearly very unwell.

I really don't see how not talking about his mental health issues is of any help to anyone's understanding. He may not have fitted any diagnostic criteria - so what? - I see kids who don't fit psychiatric classifications who are clearly disturbed and will grow to be more so, acting out their fantasies as they get older, if the therapeutic work they're engaged in isn't helpful enough. More honesty about the levels of disturbance children can show and the long term intensive work needed to help them is what's needed, not not talking about it because of the stigma involved in psychiatric diagnoses.

 

[8ball]

This guy had personality problems, too. And we seem comfortable calling him a dick as a result, saying he should have chosen to be different.

You seem comfortable with glossing over the fact that he killed a whole bunch of people.

 

[Mikey77]

Does that apply to the rest of us, too? If we have a shy personality, a social phobia, is the prescription to just 'shake it off'? Just be something different, someone different? It's pretty hard to do.

That's the thing about being called creepy etc. If it applies to his behaviour then it can be applied to any shy bloke who doesn't act as society says men should act (confident, assertive). He made a thread on bodybuilding.com and was called creepy pretty quickly. To be fair though some people tried to give him advice.

He may not have fitted any diagnostic criteria - so what? - I see kids who don't fit psychiatric classifications who are clearly disturbed and will grow to be more so, acting out their fantasies as they get older, if the therapeutic work they're engaged in isn't helpful enough. More honesty about the levels of disturbance children can show and the long term intensive work needed to help them is what's needed, not not talking about it because of the stigma involved in psychiatric diagnoses.

Does the honesty exist within mental health to say that they have no explanation, no theory, and are clueless in certain cases? I agree with you that he may have exhibited thoughts that could not have been put into any category, but I believe part of the mental health industry's justification for taking money from people is the myth of the theory, or the tablet.

Not until the limitations of shrinks are addressed (they won't be the ones to admit their flaws) will there even start to be an open discussion on alternative ways of dealing with mental health problems, including teaching kids to be self aware at school from a very young age. What would be wrong with that?

 

[likesfish]

Murdering your flatmates one thing Most people have a fantasy about that at least once
But killing randoms is just being a dick.
If you must go out in a blaze of glory go after the president its traditional

 

[quiquaquo]

I read some of his manifesto and it looks to me from that that he had been very disturbed for a long time, extremely paranoid, and grandiose as a defence against his deep feelings of humiliation. It seems to me that he was clearly very unwell.

I really don't see how not talking about his mental health issues is of any help to anyone's understanding. He may not have fitted any diagnostic criteria - so what? - I see kids who don't fit psychiatric classifications who are clearly disturbed and will grow to be more so, acting out their fantasies as they get older, if the therapeutic work they're engaged in isn't helpful enough. More honesty about the levels of disturbance children can show and the long term intensive work needed to help them is what's needed, not not talking about it because of the stigma involved in psychiatric diagnoses.

He was also rich middle class and well connected which possibly shielded him from the treatment he clearly failed to get. People like him don't get sectioned as readily as do those from less priviledged backgrounds.

 

[cantsin]

He was also rich middle class and well connected which possibly shielded him from the treatment he clearly failed to get. People like him don't get sectioned as readily as do those from less priviledged backgrounds.

good point

 

[turing test]

It has nothing to do with personality or class. Guns are too easy buy in the US.

 

[Greebo]

<snip> Whatever your personality makeup is - did you choose it?

Personality can be changed, by external events, or by choosing to do so.

 

[Belushi]

It has nothing to do with personality or class. Guns are too easy buy in the US.

Seeing as three of his victims were stabbed to death and he ran others down in his car there is obviously more to it than just the availability of firearms.

 

[turing test]

Good point. It's pretty unusual to have to point out 1/2 not gun slaying. Maybe he was not a good shot.

 

[Belushi]

Good point. It's pretty unusual to have to point out 1/2 not gun slaying. Maybe he was not a good shot.

I don't think the stabbing victims have been named yet but having read his 'testimony' yesterday I have a horrible feeling I know who they are. He actively wanted to torture and stab some of his victims.

 

[rekil]

Seeing as three of his victims were stabbed to death and he ran others down in his car there is obviously more to it than just the availability of firearms.

He said he planned to cut their heads off, stick them in a bag, then empty them in the street, and that he was was going to run over people in the street with his SUV.

 

[Belushi]

Bloody hell http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-parents-heard-of-massacre-on-car-radio.html

 

[Belushi]

I don't think the stabbing victims have been named yet but having read his 'testimony' yesterday I have a horrible feeling I know who they are. He actively wanted to torture and stab some of his victims.

I see that they have named the stabbing victims now and they were his housemates and one of their friends as he planned.

 

[Dowie]

The thing is each person who carries out these rampages knows they'll have multiple articles written about them, face all over various media... whatever rant they've written published all over the world, video's they've recorded seen by millions....

Would be nice if they could be more restrained - report the stories and focus on the victims not the butt hurt little virgin who went postal.... don't publish the rant attempting to justify it, don't publish any video rants by the killer, give them minimal attention.

 

[Belushi]

He 'published' them all himself, unless you stop people uploading things to the net the days when you can control what people view and read are long gone.

 

[likesfish]

Yay according to that deluded prick I'm an Alpha male
Bwhahahahahahahahahah.
The temptation to spread my own brand of idicoy to these saddos is difficult to resist.
Fishys quide to relantionships
Dont be a massive dick
Listen to what your the other half wants.
Shes a person not a fantasy figure
Compromise
Dont be a massive dick.
Worked for 15 years so far.
Or may be with two kids work pets families etc too tired to argue enough to break up

 

[Mikey77]

This is what Elliot had to put up with in his college town. He commented on this video on Youtube. Must have driven him nuts.

 

[likesfish]

i take it all back the only sane response to harlots like that is to mow them down

 

[Red Cat]

Does the honesty exist within mental health to say that they have no explanation, no theory, and are clueless in certain cases? I agree with you that he may have exhibited thoughts that could not have been put into any category, but I believe part of the mental health industry's justification for taking money from people is the myth of the theory, or the tablet.

I wasn't saying that he couldn't have been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness, I was saying that in a way it's not that important - mental 'illness' is a far bigger, broader, deeper, more political and social picture than psychiatric classification.

No, I don't think that kind of honesty does exist or it's very, very rare. There are competing theories and ways of working but psychiatrists base their authority on being part of medical science, so of course they're not going to say they don't know, and it's the medics with the power, authority and the ultimate responsibility in mental health settings. Unfortunately, with the dominance of evidence-based practice and the targets and measurable outcomes that are part of that, ways of working which are less certain, less predictable, patient-led, where the clinician being open to not knowing is a central part of the training and an essential part of the work, such as child psychoanalytic psychotherapy, this kind of relational working, gradually getting to know someone over time, helping them to get to know themselves, is being pushed out of the NHS.

 

[Dowie]

He 'published' them all himself, unless you stop people uploading things to the net the days when you can control what people view and read are long gone.

I'm not talking about controlling what people can view on the net I'm talking about the focus of mainstream media reporting of the case being on the attacker, his motives, re-printing his letter, posting clips from his video, numerous pictures form his facebook, who he was etc... Why give him so much publicity - they can report on the event without that much focus being drawn towards the attacker who now becomes a sort of celebrity killer.

 

[Red Cat]

I'm not talking about controlling what people can view on the net I'm talking about the focus of mainstream media reporting of the case being on the attacker, his motives, re-printing his letter, posting clips from his video, numerous pictures form his facebook, who he was etc... Why give him so much publicity - they can report on the event without that much focus being drawn towards the attacker who now becomes a sort of celebrity killer.

You know the answer to that already, I'm sure.

 

[ska invita]

I wonder what Wilhelm Reich would have said about this

 

[Red Cat]

I wonder what Wilhelm Reich would have said about this

Why?

 

[ska invita]

Why?

his pyschoanalysis looked at the relationship between sexuality (and its repression) and violence