Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[Citizen66]

Seems the plane flew over the region against advice from aviation authorities as it's the shortest route so lower fuel costs. So we can blame Capitalism.

Interesting that the headlines are saying that if there's Russian or Russian backed rebels' involvement there'll be "hell to pay!!!" So if the Ukraine govt are behind the attack that's fine?

 

[kebabking]

these SAMS- are they heat based lock on ?

modern radar guided SAM systems will use both RG and IR to guide them in - modern military aircraft carry decoy systems to defeat RG and IR (chaff, flares, decoys, ECM etc...) but by using several systems at the same time the incoming missile has a reasonable chance of working out whats a decoy and whats the real target. so if it sees a massive radar target suddenly appear but that radar target has no heat source the missile knows its chaff or a decoy balloon, and if it sees an incredibly hot heat source, but its got bog-all radar return it knows its looking at a flare.

from recall this missile - though of course 'this missile' is a somewhat wide concept, it will have perhaps 10 different types with upgrades, some more capable that others - is primarly radar guided, but it has a 'line-of-sight, and see what you can find on IR when you get there' capabilty, and a straight IR mode.

the statement by the US that they detected an air search radar, and then a more focused fire control radar, followed by a 'large thermal event', indicates to me it was a straight radar guided attack. the US's systems, in the ground, in the air, and space based are certainly capable of making this detection, and they will have been pointing at Eastern Ukraine...

 

[Citizen66]

It always amuses me how (blissfully) unaware many other passengers are of the routing of their flights.

Unaware until the in flight monitors start showing your position at the Ukrainian border and you twitch nervously in your seat.

 

[likesfish]

The buk sam is a bit 2nd rate as sam systems go if it was defectors the rebels would have been pleased as punch to get this weapon system looks really warry big tank thing with missiles on top.
Unfortunatly its a bit useless in a civil war cant shoot it at people on the ground bit useless for targetting helicopters and gunships countermeasures etc.
But taking out an evil goverment spyplane are moment to shine.
Ooops

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

Seems the plane flew over the region against advice from aviation authorities as it's the shortest route so lower fuel costs. So we can blame Capitalism.

Seems BA and Air France have been putting safety before profit in this regard. I know BA have been avoiding Ukraine since June.

 

[ruffneck23]

from the Beeb:
09:13:
"The Russians are done for. This is an international crime which must be investigated by the international tribunal in The Hague," Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk says. Speaking at a meeting in Kiev, he also said that Ukraine should prepare for "full restrictions" on trade with Russia, Interfax-Ukraine news agency reports.

 

[elbows]

There were already signs last night of what Russias propaganda line might be on this stuff. Putin said:

"This tragedy would not have happened, if there had been peace on that land, or in any case if military operations in southeastern Ukraine had not been renewed," he said in televised comments.

"And without doubt the government of the territory on which it happened bears responsibility for this frightening tragedy," he said, adding that he had urged the Russian authorities to do everything possible to help with the investigation into the incident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/putin-ukraine-malaysia_n_5597094.html

 

[goldenecitrone]

What this thread needs is some RT propaganda to balance things out.

 

[Batboy]

Two Newcastle United fans on board for what it's worth. You have to question why any airline would choose to fly across Ukraine airspace. It's well known what a fuck up it is there.

 

[gosub]

Two Newcastle United fans on board for what it's worth. You have to question why any airline would choose to fly across Ukraine airspace. It's well known what a fuck up it is there.

No, its the quickest and cheapest route, and was considered open. If you are going to point the blame at people who don't have surface to air missiles, its Eurocontrol for not issuing a NOTAM. Not that I would.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Two Newcastle United fans on board for what it's worth. You have to question why any airline would choose to fly across Ukraine airspace. It's well known what a fuck up it is there.

John Alder & Liam Sweeny on their way to watch the mags down in NZ, according to the chronic, John, who was known as 'the undertaker' (nowt like your nick name coming back to haunt you) had only missed one game since '73.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-fans-among-298-people-7451096

RIP

 

[ibilly99]

Good job the Russians have some credit in the bank - they'll need it more than ever now.
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...s-match-with-david-cameron-and-boris-johnson/

 

[TomUS]

What this thread needs is some RT propaganda to balance things out.

There was no official confirmation that the plane was shot down rather than crashed from a different cause....

http://rt.com/news/173744-putin-ukraine-plane-russia/

Really? All other sources say a shoot down is confirmed. Earlier, RT had an article emphasizing Ukraine had recently moved AA missiles to the east (gee, wonder why?). That article has now vanished. So far everything seems to point to Russia backed rebs doing it & with Russia supplied missiles or at least technical assistance. Vlad is worried.

 

[mauvais]

The missiles might well be former Ukrainian military property (probably of Russian origin), as rebels have taken control of all sorts recently. It's also possible that the operators were once trained by the Ukrainians and essentially defected from their military to the rebels. That means no direct link to Russia in regard to this incident, even though they've clearly been involved in and enabling the wider affair.

In a way it's just as well. Past incidents like KAL007 could very easily have led to war - look up the sea search part of that incident to see one example of why.

 

[belboid]

What this thread needs is some RT propaganda to balance things out.

had a fun conversation yesterday with one of the brit heads of the Solidarity with Antifascist Resistance in Ukraine mob. He immediately put the blame on the Ukrainian government, but then added that of course the rebels have every right to shoot at planes they think might be coming there way, anyway.

 

[ibilly99]

This is what a BUK missile system looks like.

 

[Batboy]

No, its the quickest and cheapest route, and was considered open. If you are going to point the blame at people who don't have surface to air missiles, its Eurocontrol for not issuing a NOTAM. Not that I would.

I fucking would. I naively assumed that no commercial aircraft would fly into this airspace, it's not like there haven't already been planes albeit military cargo planes shot down, shooting down planes is becoming an Olympic sport there.

 

[5t3IIa]

Apols if repost but I can't wade through all your mad speculations.

http://www.flightradar24.com/46.93,21.74/5
See aircraft avoiding Ukrainian airpace now.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

No, its the quickest and cheapest route, and was considered open. If you are going to point the blame at people who don't have surface to air missiles, its Eurocontrol for not issuing a NOTAM. Not that I would.

Posted on a different forum (as a joke mainly) about the same route avoiding all conflict zones:

 

[gosub]

Posted on a different forum (as a joke mainly) about the same route avoiding all conflict zones:

but why do that when authorities are telling you the blue route is safe. If you are looking for anyone aviation related to blame for the tragedy, the blame goes here. Ukraine not willing to admit it wasn't in full control of its airspace, and eurocontrol taking that at face value.

 

[2hats]

Seems BA and Air France have been putting safety before profit in this regard. I know BA have been avoiding Ukraine since June.

Virgin were still flying through the area an hour or so after the incident (same route taken for the last ~2 weeks)...

 

[gosub]

I fucking would. I naively assumed that no commercial aircraft would fly into this airspace, it's not like there haven't already been planes albeit military cargo planes shot down, shooting down planes is becoming an Olympic sport there.

EUrocontrol telling or (not telling) a sovereign state, particularity one supported by the EU that its talking shit and being reckless,most likely have an audit trail leading back to here

 

[dylanredefined]

EUrocontrol telling or (not telling) a sovereign state, particularity one supported by the EU that its talking shit and being reckless,most likely have an audit trail leading back to here

Only ones responsible is the idiot who did not postively i.d. his target and then squeezed the trigger.

 

[gosub]

Only ones responsible is the idiot who did not postively i.d. his target and then squeezed the trigger.

I agree. But this site and the beeb last night had pundits saying questions should be asked of the route of the flight. If you are going down that route DON'T BLAME THE AIRLINE

 

[Citizen66]

According to the Icke forums it's all due to the number seven. Boeing 777. 17/07/14 (14 being the double of 7) and 295 dead.

2+9+5=16. 1+6=7. lol.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

Just saw that 80 children are included in passenger list

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

According to the Icke forums it's all due to the number seven. Boeing 777. 17/07/14 (14 being the double of 7) and 295 dead.

2+9+5=16. 1+6=7. lol.

Phew! Thanks to the Ickers for clearing that up and avoiding escalating tensions with Russia.

Fucking good job no other 777's were flying yesterday.

 

[laptop]

BBC reports the rebels have retrieved the aircraft's black box which may now be on its way to Moscow.

Much confusion about that.


Russia says will not take "black boxes" from airliner downed in Ukraine (Reuters)

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

I agree. But this site and the beeb last night had pundits saying questions should be asked of the route of the flight. If you are going down that route DON'T BLAME THE AIRLINE

Why not? It's airlines who decide what route to actually fly (well, their pilots but strongly informed by operations management), based on information from a variety of sources including their own research.

 

[gosub]

Why not? It's airlines who decide what route to actually fly (well, their pilots but strongly informed by operations management), based on information from a variety of sources including their own research.

Ryanair had three staff arrested the other week breaking in to fylingdales while trying to work out if it was a threat. This sort of thing is exactly the sort of thing you look to NOTAM's for.