Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[TheHoodedClaw]

not all the locals are insensitive

I'll have a look when I get back on the PC, but I watched a report last night that showed that the local villagers and farmers, and a squad from a nearby mine, were doing their best to help, with much human kindness. The guys with guns, not so much.

 

[2hats]

not all the locals are insensitive

Indeed. There is this moving and potentially upsetting account in the WSJ:

Spoiler: Child taken to the local morgue

The duty nurse at the morgue in Torez was surprised Thursday night when a man showed up in a Zhiguli with the injured and burned corpse of a young boy from the crash site. The man, who lived near where the plane debris landed, went to have a look after hearing the crash and came across the 5- to 7-year-old boy's body in a field. He said he decided to bring the boy to the local morgue out of fear that a dog would find it if he didn't do something, the duty nurse said.

"It was an absolute accident that he ended up here," the nurse said, standing outside the run-down hospital complex that looked almost abandoned. She had tears in her eyes as she described never imaging a war in her own backyard, let alone a downed civilian airliner.

The arrival of the little boy, whom she said was clearly not Ukrainian or Russian and dressed in a little green t-shirt pulled up around his neck, drove the pain home. "He was covered in blood, and his corpse had just been lying there," she said, introducing herself as Lyubov Nikolaevna, her name and patronymic. "It was this fresh kind of blood."

She said the man who brought the boy warned her that more bodies would likely be arriving, but no others showed up, as emergency workers took over control of the crash scene. She said she was heartbroken and wants the chaos to end. "We don't care who is president," she said. "We just want peace to cook borsht, bake pirozhki and bring up our kids."

The little boy's body stayed in the tiny morgue's refrigerator before the ambulance worker on site brought him to local emergency workers who were gathering the bodies and remains from the flight. It was the only body that ended up at the Torez morgue, but the ambulance worker said she knew of others that landed in neighboring towns within the 35-kilometer-wide crash site.

"They fell on people's homes, everywhere, both full bodies and in pieces," said the medical worker, Olga Vyacheslavovna, who also gave only her name and patronymic. She was happy the boy had been removed quickly from the site by a good samaritan. "They didn't want a dog to eat him," she said. "I helped get him home."

 

[Gingerman]

Someone must recognise this as belonging to their child or grandchild,ignorant fucker....

 

[weltweit]

I'll have a look when I get back on the PC, but I watched a report last night that showed that the local villagers and farmers, and a squad from a nearby mine, were doing their best to help, with much human kindness. The guys with guns, not so much.

Yes, there were a squad of miners who rather than going to work, helped comb the fields for victims, I have seen a VT of this, also emergency workers of some kind collecting bodies. The area seems pretty run down economically, I don't think they have much in the way of official resources to cope with an event like this.

eta apparently the bagged bodies have been put on a refrigerated train nearby and the black boxes are with the local political leader until investigators arrive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28389991

So, where are the investigators?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Is CR doing his 'Russia are sweet gentle giants who are just misunderstood' routine again?

 

[2hats]

So, where are the investigators?

NTSB and AAIB investigators reported to have arrived in Kiev yesterday along with FBI and Met Police specialists. Clearly there are lots of hoops to jump through and egos to massage en route to Donetsk. There was a report somewhere that one or two suitably trained investigators were inserted in to the OSCE team but perhaps, understandably, they didn't want to draw too much attention to them.

 

[2hats]

Hmm. A few minutes ago...

Amazing moment @skynews Colin Brazier realises that as he's going through #MH17 victims belongings, what he is doing is just wrong

https://vine.co/v/M2WLQjDuOhA

 

[weltweit]

NTSB and AAIB investigators reported to have arrived in Kiev yesterday along with FBI and Met Police specialists. Clearly there are lots of hoops to jump through and egos to massage en route to Donetsk. There was a report somewhere that one or two suitably trained investigators were inserted in to the OSCE team but perhaps, understandably, they didn't want to draw too much attention to them.

I am not impressed by the progress of the investigators. It seems plenty of news journalists have managed to get access to the crash site as evidenced by masses of footage of pieces of wreckage ..

 

[Dogsauce]

The 'looting of the dead' is just sensationalist monstering by shit tabloid media again, with a clear agenda attacking Putin. Regardless of the culpability of Russia this is just horrible shit and should be beneath us - we are quick to mock Russian propaganda.

Shooting down the plane was clearly a fuck up, both sides are positioning the story to their advantage and those on the ground (locals) on the face of it are most likely trying to do the best they can in circumstances beyond their experience, possibly to the detriment of an investigation but without malice. It's pretty insulting and some kind of false western superiority that paints people living in the area as uncivilised savages, like we've seen so many times before. Fuck that dehumanising shit.

 

[likesfish]

I am not impressed by the progress of the investigators. It seems plenty of news journalists have managed to get access to the crash site as evidenced by masses of footage of pieces of wreckage ..

Journos can and do go where they like and hang the consquences.
Officals have to go through offical channels ukraine was " intresting" before the civil war broke out

 

[a_chap]

Is CR doing his 'Russia are sweet gentle giants who are just misunderstood' routine again?

No.

Russia is a fucking singular noun. Is/Are. Fucking learn to English grammar before you launch youself into the debate.

Type this: "Is CR doing his 'Russia Is a sweet gentle giant" you ignoramus.

 

[Spymaster]

Fucking learn to English grammar before you launch youself into the debate.

Learn to what English grammar?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

No.

Russia is a fucking singular noun. Is/Are. Fucking learn to English grammar before you launch youself into the debate.

Type this: "Is CR doing his 'Russia Is a sweet gentle giant" you ignoramus.

There's few things sweeter on the Internet than when someone corrects another person's grammar and completely fucks up their own grammar in the process

By the way, who is youself?

 

[Spymaster]

There's few things sweeter on the Internet ....

There are few things sweeter ......

 

[Doctor Carrot]

There's actually a law that states when you correct someone else's grammar you always fuck your own up. A_chap and I have just proved it.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

There are few things sweeter ......

There are fewer things sweeter....

or

There are only a few things sweeter...

 

[pocketscience]

Someone must recognise this as belonging to their child or grandchild,ignorant fucker....

It's a bit like the teddy bear out of Breaking Bad
Where's #Spainbuca?

 

[Voynich]

I can't imagine anything more horrific. A species that builds machines whose sole purpose is to blow humans out of their pressurized tubes, tens of kilometres in the air... And a system that packs hundreds of people into these things at a time for what, efficiency? God almighty.

if this were syria or iran, there would be bombing and sanctions within 72 hours.

There's really quite a lot of bombing already.
Vasili Lazorishinets, Ukrainian Health Minister, announced government figures of civillian casualties of the Eastern military operation - up to July 10th - 478 dead; 1392 hospitalised.
Which is now, of course, at very least 776. Non-government figures are higher.

Andrei Lysenko, spokesman at the Ukrainian National Council for Security and Defense information centre, announced Ukrainian military casualties up to the 15th - 258 dead; 922 injured; 45 captured.
Militia numbers don't seem to be as easily available, and I only quote the army numbers because they were to hand - I can't honestly say I'm that interested in the numbers who die armed.

In light of the initial statements about that A-1402 situation, the government statement that all SAM equipment is accounted for needs elaborating. It doesn't look like spokemen were clear about whether or not the missile systems were off the anti-air division base when it was taken over.
Ua-Ru.info etc

"...confirmed the fact that the Air-Defense Unit was under rebel control. "On the orders of the Commander, all assets were rendered out-of-action; inoperable - the militia gained only the territory. The headquarters of the Unit were also taken over.' he said."

Also

- On the 29th June, on orders of the Ukrainian Air Force command, personel and assets of the missile regiment at Donetsk were operationally relocated. Only obsolete automotive assets, which servicemen put further out of service, remained on the territory under the Unit's command. Subsequently, the terrorists entered the Unit's site.

top.rbc.ru etc

"This morning [29/06/14] an attack was carried out on an air-denfense unit. It included the use of RPGs and mortars. It was a well planned attack," noted Dmitrashkovski. In answer to a question from Ukrainian Pravda, Dmitrashkovski confirmed that a 'Buk' rocket battery was situated with that unit. "But it is inoperable. The others, which are operational, are situated at other strategic sites."

In one of the longer discussions of the Anti-aircraft base raid, there's reference (uncited) to the loss of SAM machinery in the loss of Crimea:

A-1402 acted as headquarters of the 156th missile regiment, which was altogether comprised of 3 "Buk-M1" divisions, each of which was composed of 3 batteries (command unit, radar unit, 2 launchers and a loader). Formerly, divisions were located at Alekseyevka, Lugansk and Mariupol, but on account of the air-defense units quartered in Crimea swearing over to Russia almost in their entirety on annexation, two of the "Buk" divisions of the 156th regment were redeployed from Avdeyevk to the Melitopol area to supply air-defense at the new border...

After the horrific event, Dmitrashkovski suggested to Novaya Gazeta that republican militia, "according to preliminary information", had access to Crimean SAM equipment.
Progressively, I get the impression that the level of internal division and scale of desertion is less and less part of the narrative, massively in favour of a simpler external, parasitic enemy.

The 'looting of the dead' is just sensationalist monstering by shit tabloid media again, with a clear agenda attacking Putin. Regardless of the culpability of Russia this is just horrible shit and should be beneath us - we are quick to mock Russian propaganda.

There can't really be any more ways left to abuse the people living in East Ukraine now. Alienated from political change (I know... but more starkly than even usual), econonmically ruined, bombed by their government, shot, displaced, surrounded by ethnic-nationalist militia, now even demonised by tabloid shite. Already outdated estimates are of about 55,000 internally displaced people in Ukraine now. 110,000 have already crossed into Russia.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Murdoch's lackeys at it again: rifling through that which belongs to the dead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...azier-luggage-mh17-_n_5603781.html?1405879059

 

[Gingerman]

Murdoch's lackeys at it again: rifling through that which belongs to the dead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...azier-luggage-mh17-_n_5603781.html?1405879059

Stay classy Sky

 

[Citizen66]

no evidence has been posted here at all . only claims

and the Russian state hasnt come up with anythiung other than speculation because, as keeps needing to be stated, there hasnt even been an investigation yet. And bar the inflight recorders no actual evidence has been gathered by anyone. Only specualtion and suposition. Which certainly isnt evidence no matter how many times you state it is evidence.

Erm, hang on. Suggesting the evidence thus far points to the rebels having downed the passenger jet doesn't equate to support of Fascism. Some of us support neither side for starters.

e2a I seem to have quoted the wrong post there. But you were attempting to join those dots.

 

[weltweit]

Slightly concerning stuff on this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28396862
That heavy equipment is being used to move some of the larger items of the wreckage. Why would anyone be doing that before investigation teams are present?

 

[laptop]

Why would anyone be doing that before investigation teams are present?

Because they're still drunk?

 

[treelover]

Stay classy Sky

Colin Brazier is quite a good journalist, he will be deeply ashamed as he realises what he has done.

 

[treelover]

A tale of a remarkable streak of good fortune for Dutch cyclist Maarten de Jonge, who was due to fly on both MH370 - which is thought to have crashed into the Indian Ocean - and MH17, which was shot down on Thursday.
Buzzfeed reports that he changed his ticket for a different flight at the last minute in both cases.

from guardian update.

 

[Nylock]

 

[purves grundy]

I am not impressed by the progress of the investigators. It seems plenty of news journalists have managed to get access to the crash site as evidenced by masses of footage of pieces of wreckage ..

Yes indeed. Are they all waiting for the UNSC resolution? Tony Abbot's expert brokering (Christ almighty, is this his moment?)

 

[DownwardDog]

Why would anyone be doing that before investigation teams are present?

To contaminate the evidence, make it harder to collect and analyse thereby devaluing any investigative conclusions reached.

 

[thriller]

I can't imagine anything more horrific. A species that builds machines whose sole purpose is to blow humans out of their pressurized tubes, tens of kilometres in the air... And a system that packs hundreds of people into these things at a time for what, efficiency? God almighty.

There's really quite a lot of bombing already.
Vasili Lazorishinets, Ukrainian Health Minister, announced government figures of civillian casualties of the Eastern military operation - up to July 10th - 478 dead; 1392 hospitalised.
Which is now, of course, at very least 776. Non-government figures are higher.

Andrei Lysenko, spokesman at the Ukrainian National Council for Security and Defense information centre, announced Ukrainian military casualties up to the 15th - 258 dead; 922 injured; 45 captured.
Militia numbers don't seem to be as easily available, and I only quote the army numbers because they were to hand - I can't honestly say I'm that interested in the numbers who die armed.

In light of the initial statements about that A-1402 situation, the government statement that all SAM equipment is accounted for needs elaborating. It doesn't look like spokemen were clear about whether or not the missile systems were off the anti-air division base when it was taken over.
Ua-Ru.info etc


Also

top.rbc.ru etc


In one of the longer discussions of the Anti-aircraft base raid, there's reference (uncited) to the loss of SAM machinery in the loss of Crimea:


After the horrific event, Dmitrashkovski suggested to Novaya Gazeta that republican militia, "according to preliminary information", had access to Crimean SAM equipment.
Progressively, I get the impression that the level of internal division and scale of desertion is less and less part of the narrative, massively in favour of a simpler external, parasitic enemy.


There can't really be any more ways left to abuse the people living in East Ukraine now. Alienated from political change (I know... but more starkly than even usual), econonmically ruined, bombed by their government, shot, displaced, surrounded by ethnic-nationalist militia, now even demonised by tabloid shite. Already outdated estimates are of about 55,000 internally displaced people in Ukraine now. 110,000 have already crossed into Russia.

Nooooo. I'm talking about bombing Russia. Not The rebels. If the Iranians or Syria were accused of supplying this missile -not that they have such weaponry, there wouldn't be any waiting for investigations. Sanctions and strikes would have happened already.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Maybe Russia just wants war, and will do or support many things to bring it about.