Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[belboid]

the wreckahe of the fuselgae is actually pretty key . Flight recorders are sort of important too . There as yet isnt any actual evidence of where the missile was fired from, or by who . Or what it even was. Only supposition . There is no evidence as yet to pin the blame on anyone, whether seperatist or Ukrainian . There isnt even an investigation underway yet .

There are umpteen investigations underway, actually.

Including the OSCE one which is being blocked by separatists - a fact (a piece of evidence, if you will) that you have chosen to deny.

 

[belboid]

the USA has satellites which most certainly will have been tracking the seperatists. As yet they havent shown any missile being fired anyone either. So theres no evidence, and certainly not on here.

They have said where they think the missile was fired from.

 

[Casually Red]

They have said where they think the missile was fired from.

theyve said all sorts. As yet they havent backed it up with any proof .

 

[2hats]

today they started moving them . Immediately the western media started shreiking they were moving the evidence.

No. They were saying that yesterday before a bunch of amateurs (though perhaps well meaning) started bagging them. That possibly had something to do with the casual manner in which people were wading through the site and pushing 'debris' (including body parts) to one side.

If one wanted persons with appropriate technical training and know how to investigate the scene properly then they would secure it and await arrival, actively facilitate arrival of such. Not hinder access yet let locals, miners, other randoms (no matter how well intentioned, or not) plus media, wander over the remains.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

today they started moving them . Immediately the western media started shreiking they were moving the evidence.

Any competent authority establishes a perimeter, leaves the plane parts alone, photographs everything, marks everything and everybody, and takes the bodies away for ID. The drunken rabble in charge of this site are a disgrace.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Imagine how the families must be feeling. Not only have their loved ones been murdered, but now they have to watch these pissed-up cunts rooting through the debris and waving the belongings of the dead like trophies. Sickening.

 

[weltweit]

.. The drunken rabble in charge of this site are a disgrace.

And that is the crux of the problem, the crash occurred on their territory and they don't appear to have a plan of how to cope with it.

 

[Poi E]

Putin starts looking more and more like Milosevic, another misunderstood orthodox hero.

 

[Casually Red]

ent there as monitors, not investigators. Theyve made clear they dont even want the inflight recorders.

No. They were saying that yesterday before a bunch of amateurs (though perhaps well meaning) started bagging them. That possibly had something to do with the casual manner in which people were wading through the site and pushing 'debris' (including body parts) to one side.

If one wanted persons with appropriate technical training and know how to investigate the scene properly then they would secure it and await arrival, actively facilitate arrival of such. Not hinder access yet let locals, miners, other randoms (no matter how well intentioned, or not) plus media, wander over the remains.

this happens to be smack dab in the middle of a rather bloody warzone in a failed state thats tearing itself apart, and wasnt too sharp even before that . Not Tunbridge wells. There are seperatist factions there who dont even talk to each other . Im not sure exactly who it is you seem to think is in charge.

 

[belboid]

Im not sure exactly who it is you seem to think is in charge.

A complete scumbag.

 

[belboid]

theyve said all sorts. As yet they havent backed it up with any proof .

They provided their satellite data - which no one, as far as I'm aware, has actually challenged.

 

[2hats]

Im not sure exactly who it is you seem to think is in charge.

Clearly no one competent is in charge, as other posters have pointed out.

 

[weltweit]

If such a crash occurred in England, the AAIB would investigate, it isn't clear to me who is supposed to investigate this crash, is this part of the delay, that no one has stepped forward?

 

[belboid]

If such a crash occurred in England, the AAIB would investigate, it isn't clear to me who is supposed to investigate this crash, is this part of the delay, that no one has stepped forward?

Interfax reported that 132 Malaysian experts, including medical workers and military officials, had arrived in Kiev on Saturday to join the investigation, but it was not clear whether they would be able to visit the site.

 

[Casually Red]

They provided their satellite data - which no one, as far as I'm aware, has actually challenged.

not according to the NYT account, which flatly contradicts your assertion they know were it was fired from.

American intelligence and military officials said the plane had been destroyed by a Russian SA-series missile, based on surveillance satellite data that showed the final trajectory and impact of the missile but not its point of origin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysian-airlines-plane-ukraine.html?_r=0

so thats plainly completely wrong too . No evidence as yet who fired it or from were, much less what it even was.

 

[belboid]

not according to the NYT account, which flatly contradicts your assertion they know were it was fired from.

American intelligence and military officials said the plane had been destroyed by a Russian SA-series missile, based on surveillance satellite data that showed the final trajectory and impact of the missile but not its point of origin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysian-airlines-plane-ukraine.html?_r=0

so thats plainly completely wrong too . No evidence as yet who fired it or from were, much less what it even was.

Obama said they did, but fair enough. You're now only 12-1 down.

 

[likesfish]

An investigation and recovery operation is grim difficult and hard work needs coordination and professional people.
That would be hard enough in a normal ukraine a civil war no chance Even without russians playing silly buggers so far ukraines recovered 184 corpses which is doing quite well considering

 

[2hats]

If such a crash occurred in England, the AAIB would investigate, it isn't clear to me who is supposed to investigate this crash, is this part of the delay, that no one has stepped forward?

One would guess that it would either be the NBAAI - National Bureau of Air Accidents Investigation of Ukraine - or the Air Accident Investigation Commission of the Interstate Aviation Committee. Or both.

 

[Casually Red]

If such a crash occurred in England, the AAIB would investigate, it isn't clear to me who is supposed to investigate this crash, is this part of the delay, that no one has stepped forward?

i think itll have to be a UN mandated thing. Its going to be very diffcult to find anyone who can be considered neutral and unbiased . Both the yanks and Russians are calling for an international investigation .

 

[belboid]

i think itll have to be a UN mandated thing. Its going to be very diffcult to find anyone who can be considered neutral and unbiased . Both the yanks and Russians are calling for an international investigation .

ah yes, wait months to get a UN approved committee, while all the evidence rots and disappears, great idea.

 

[Casually Red]

ah yes, wait months to get a UN approved committee, while all the evidence rots and disappears, great idea.

i dont think the plane will rot .

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

If such a crash occurred in England, the AAIB would investigate, it isn't clear to me who is supposed to investigate this crash, is this part of the delay, that no one has stepped forward?

The various national investigation boards tend to co-operate on the aeroplane and ATC issues - this one will involve Dutch, Malaysian, Ukrainian and US bodies at least. This one will be a bit more politically charged than most though.

Edit: the radio has just said that an AAIB team are in Kiev and looking to go to the site too.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

i dont think the plane will rot .

The point is that they don't want parts of the plane to walk. There's plenty of valuable metal in a 777.

 

[8den]

i dont think the plane will rot .

Yeah crime scene investigators are famous for their lackadaisically attitude to gathering physical evidence "Sure it's not going anywhere is it".

 

[2hats]

not according to the NYT account, which flatly contradicts your assertion they know were it was fired from.

American intelligence and military officials said the plane had been destroyed by a Russian SA-series missile, based on surveillance satellite data that showed the final trajectory and impact of the missile but not its point of origin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysian-airlines-plane-ukraine.html?_r=0

so thats plainly completely wrong too . No evidence as yet who fired it or from were, much less what it even was.

You should probably try to keep up and consult more recent sources. A subsequent NYT article following further information from USG sources states:

A United States official said the missile responsible for shooting down the plane was launched from a region near the town of Snizhne.

Plus Obama's statement subsequent to that newspaper article: "The plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine."

Simple physics - if you have computed the 'final' trajectory of a missile targeting an object that isn't performing evasive manoeuvres then you have a very good idea of the launch origin.

 

[belboid]

Obama said they did, but fair enough. You're now only 12-1 down.

Following a video replay, make that 12-0.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Simple physics - if you have computed the 'final' trajectory of a missile targeting an object that isn't performing evasive manoeuvres then you have a very good idea of the launch origin.

I'm guessing simple physics isn't CRs strong suit. More his old pair of Y fronts held together by their stains.

 

[Poi E]

I see the rebel military supreme was one of the murdering Milosevic paid thugs in eastern Bosnia during the war there. And a prize cunt in Chechnya, too.

 

[Casually Red]

You should probably try to keep up and consult more recent sources. A subsequent NYT article following further information from USG sources states:

View attachment 57865

Plus Obama's statement subsequent to that newspaper article: "The plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine."

Simple physics - if you have computed the 'final' trajectory of a missile targeting an object that isn't performing evasive manoeuvres then you have a very good idea of the launch origin.

except they still havent provided that data to support it or shown any evidence to back it up .

 

[2hats]

except they still havent provided that data to support it or shown any evidence to back it up .

What format are you expecting it in? HDF5? FITS?