Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine

[2hats]

Whats easy to understand is the Kiev regimes air traffic control system directed them there

Minus absolute restrictions, airlines/flight crew choose where to fly. They aren't 'directed'. They could have chosen to route differently; other airlines were.

yet the same regime are stating they know that the Russians have supplied medium range SAM missile systems to the Donetsk republicans... Although theres still no actual proof they even possess such weapons. They deny they do and I havent yet seen any actual proof they do have them

Though strangely the Voice of Russia reported precisely that about 3 weeks ago.

The self-defense forces of Donetsk People’s Republic seized control of a Ukrainian anti-air military installation, RIA Novosti reports.

"The forces of Donetsk People’s Republic assumed control of A-1402 military base," the militia's representative said. According to him, it is an anti-aircraft missile forces facility equipped with Buk mobile surface-to-air missile systems.

 

[Casually Red]

Going to be interesting getting to the bottom of this, the missile launcher may already be back across the border in Russia and the crew out of the way somewhere. Those separatist tweets immediately after the strike seem like a massive pointer though!

not really. Its highly unlikely the guy doing the tweeting was the person operating a missile system . The tweets may well have been based on nothing more than rumours. A big plane crashes, some seperatists assume their guys have taken down a ukrainian military plane. Then tweet about it . Mightnt be anything more than that .

 

[belboid]

not really. Its highly unlikely the guy doing the tweeting was the person operating a missile system . The tweets may well have been based on nothing more than rumours. A big plane crashes, some seperatists assume their guys have taken down a ukrainian military plane. Then tweet about it . Mightnt be anything more than that .

fuck off, you apologist turd

 

[Casually Red]

Minus absolute restrictions, airlines/flight crew choose where to fly. They aren't 'directed'. They could have chosen to route differently; other airlines were.


Though strangely the Voice of Russia reported precisely that about 3 weeks ago.

yet that report was flatly contradicted at the time by junta spokespersons , and we now have the junta insisting all 60 of its BUK systems have been accounted for and are in their possession . So theres no evidence at all the seperatists ever possessed any ,whether seized from the junta or supplied by anyone else. Only unverified claims from the Ukrainian govt that Russia have directly supplied the system and its operators to the seperatists. Claims that need to be regarded with deep suspicion given the track record of the people making the claims, and the nature of their relationship with the people they are accusing.

 

[Casually Red]

fuck off, you apologist turd

i see, theres no need for any international investigation then. Youve dtermined the facts of what happened already from your command centre in fucking Brixton.

 

[2hats]

yet that report was flatly contradicted at the time by junta spokespersons

You'll be able to provide links to the RIA Novosti/Interfax reports of such then.

 

[belboid]

i see, theres no need for any international investigation then. Youve dtermined the facts of what happened already from your command centre in fucking Brixton.

There would be an international investigation going on right now were it not for the people you support blocking their way. And looting the site. Those are the facts that you choose to ignore in your one sided account.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

i see, theres no need for any international investigation then.

Who is currently preventing the OSCE team having full access to the site?

 

[Casually Red]

Siberian 1812? The Ukrainians shot it down by mistake during a training exercise (with Russian personnel in attendance). It took them just over a week to admit it. Ironically (in the context of your reply) the US military called it correctly first and a subsequent investigation by the Russian aviation authorities came to the same conclusion (an internal Russian military report in the first few days agreed with the US assessment).

then why were the Ukrainians still denying theyd done it 6 years later ?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/kiev-court-proof-lacking-that-missile-downed-russian-airliner-1.227899

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121211/178080469.html

 

[mauvais]

I hope you're at least getting paid for this guff.

 

[Casually Red]

There would be an international investigation going on right now were it not for the people you support blocking their way. And looting the site. Those are the facts that you choose to ignore in your one sided account.

the OSCE arent even tasked with investigating the crash. Its not within their remit. No investigation team has even been appointed yet. The OSCE team on the ground have made that clear themselves. They arent even there to collect the black boxes. All they are doing there is observing the crash site and reporting back, not investigating. The crash site itself is spread across something like ten kms, in the middle of a war zone were theres no ceasefire. Theres no evidence they are being blocked and no evidence anyone is looting bodies either.

 

[Casually Red]

Who is currently preventing the OSCE team having full access to the site?

nobody as far as i can make out. I was just watching their spokesman there on the telly and he never claimed that was the case at all.

 

[Casually Red]

We know plenty. For instance we know that it's two and a half days later, the investigators aren't allowed access and the bodies are rotting in a hot field. Stick that in your whataboutery pipe.

bullshit. No investigation team has even been appointed yet, much less been prevented accessing anywhere.

 

[mauvais]

Theres no evidence they are being blocked

International monitors at the scene said they were still being hampered by heavily armed rebels. "Some of the body bags are open and the damage to the corpses is very, very bad - it is very difficult to look at," said Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) spokesman Michael Bociurkiw.

He said the 24-member delegation was given further access to the crash site today but their movements were being limited by the rebels

Observers from the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe) said on Friday they had been blocked from proper access to the site of the crashed flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine.

Monitors said they did not have the freedom of movement they needed and that some of the separatist gunmen appeared intoxicated while others would not let the team look at the wreckage of the passenger jet.

Pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine fired a warning shot Friday and blocked Organization for Security and Cooperation staff from investigating the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, according to reporters tweeting from Ukraine.

"Shots fired by rebels at international team of investigators (OSCE) in Ukraine as they approach plane wreckage," Terry Moran, chief foreign correspondent at ABC News, tweeted Friday afternoon.

It's probably all just anti-Russian bias isn't it.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I hope you're at least getting paid for this guff.

I think he probably does it for free.

 

[2hats]

then why were the Ukrainians still denying theyd done it 6 years later ?

Something to do with admitting liability and payouts perchance? A Ukrainian naval spokesperson accepted responsibility at the time and stated it had been brought down by a SAM.

 

[belboid]

nobody as far as i can make out.

It mustbe tricky to make anything out with your head so far up separatist arse.

 

[Casually Red]

Something to do with admitting liability and payouts perchance? A Ukrainian naval spokesperson accepted responsibility at the time and stated it had been brought down by a SAM.

regardless of what that spokesperson said the undeniable facts are the Ukrainian government and military were still denying their missile was responsible right into 2013

As things stand the only people proven to possess this sort of missile system in Ukraine are the Ukrainian military. Im pretty taken aback at the willingness of some on here to have such confidence in them given their track record. And they werent even at war in these instnces, or being run by neo nazis.

http://news.kievukraine.info/2007/07/accident-prone-ukraine.html

 

[Poi E]

Spoiler

View attachment 57853

It's not a graphic image (no bodies or anything), just a rather big and horribly depressing one.

Ahh the bravery of those fearless freedom fighters. Guess they took a few toys back to the young uns in between defending the homeland.

 

[belboid]

regardless of what that spokesperson said the undeniable facts are the Ukrainian government and military were still denying their missile was responsible right into 2013

Utter drivel, complete and utter drivel. Do you think anyone will believe your fantasies? Despite no one showing any evidence of doing so?

 

[mauvais]

Suppose for a moment we enter the reality distortion field in which the only people with a Buk launcher are the pro-Kiev faction. I suppose then they smuggled it into a very obviously rebel held zone, shot down the plane, and then smuggled it out, erm, east... to Russia?

Yeah, that seems eminently sensible.

 

[Idris2002]

Fucking up that badly probably ends badly.

In Soviet Russia, fuck up badly ends you.

My guess - the shooters were off their faces on vodka, and Vlad the Impaler is increasingly. . . annoyed about his poor return on investment in eastern Ukraine.

 

[Casually Red]

Utter drivel, complete and utter drivel. Do you think anyone will believe your fantasies? Despite no one showing any evidence of doing so?

why are you disputing these news reports ?

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121211/178080469.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/ukrainian-court-rules-investigators-failed-to-prov.html

why are these reports of the official denial of responsibility for years afterwards by the Ukrainian state either fantasy or drivel ?

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

why are you disputing these news reports ?

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121211/178080469.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/ukrainian-court-rules-investigators-failed-to-prov.html

why are these reports of the official denial of responsibility for years afterwards by the Ukrainian state either fantasy or drivel ?

Why are you trying to derail the thread?

 

[belboid]

why are you disputing these news reports ?

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121211/178080469.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/ukrainian-court-rules-investigators-failed-to-prov.html

why are these reports of the official denial of responsibility for years afterwards by the Ukrainian state either fantasy or drivel ?

As already pointed out to you, that's an argument about compensation. They accepted responsibility at the time. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1358586/Airliner-blasted-out-of-sky.html

Funny which posts you choose to reply to, and which you choose to ignore, isn't it?

 

[belboid]

Why are you trying to derail the thread?

He's trying to set up a cover for when even Putin accepts that this was carried out by the separatists.

 

[Casually Red]

Suppose for a moment we enter the reality distortion field in which the only people with a Buk launcher are the pro-Kiev faction. I suppose then they smuggled it into a very obviously rebel held zone, shot down the plane, and then smuggled it out, erm, east... to Russia?

Yeah, that seems eminently sensible.

if youve any proof whatsoever the seperatists possess a BUK system then by all means feel free to post it . The UN security council would certainly love to see it . The juntas forces admit to having 60 of them and say all their are accounted for, none of them are in rebel control according to them . So there simply isnt any evidence whatsoever the rebel forces even possess one.
And the system has a range of well over 100 kms . Just because it was hit over that area it certainly doesnt mean it was fired on from there.

as regards your insistence that it would have to be smuggled in any direction thats not based on any logical premise.

 

[Dogsauce]

It's a story on the front of the Sun about the looting of the dead again, isn't it? FFS.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

if youve any proof whatsoever the seperatists possess a BUK system then by all means feel free to post it .

Ask your handler to translate this:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://tw itter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112

Odd how it got deleted shortly after the shootdown, eh?

Edit: you'll need to remove the space in the "twitter" part of the url. The board software was parsing the unbroken link oddly.

 

[mauvais]

No logical premise except for the pictures of one, minus one of its missiles, being moved into Russia.