And next, Syria?

[teqniq]

I think I might wait to see if any independent corroboration turns up as to who the bombs have been landing on, meanwhile the YPG seem to be pleased

 

[bendeus]

American gov & political commentators are saying Ruskies bombing rebels will increase Islmao militant recruitment from outside Syria.....cries of 'Remember Chechnya' etc.

Yes, because it's only been a trickle so far

 

[twentythreedom]

Graun live

Russian airstrikes in Syria: White House says Putin cannot act alone – live

Depressing

 

[Casually Red]

Graun live

Russian airstrikes in Syria: White House says Putin cannot act alone – live

Depressing

What a bunch of jokers . Russia isn't acting alone, it's acting in full partnership with the Syrian government , it's army and airforce . They've a level of cooperation and co ordination on the ground that's second to none and far superior to anything the yanks could cobble together . Moreover they're acting in full accordance with international law . Carrying out military activity in a country where that country has specifically invited them to do so .

And these jokers are seriously claiming the Russian plan is doomed to failure...barely a week after the ..wholly illegal ...force they trained and equipped handed over all their equipment to al Qaeda within 24 hours of entering Syria !!! Just weeks after the other outfit they sent in we're all kidnapped . Jokers .

I really hope this BBC article is true . According to western reports the first clue the yanks had that Russian bombing missions were imminent was when a Russian general turned up at their door in Baghdad and told them they'd be bombing in an hour, so if they've any mates in the field in Syria they'd better get them the fuck out of there .

How Putin blindsided the US over Syria - BBC News



Which..to be fair..is the absolutely correct attitude to take . One of utter contempt . Russian forces in Syria have legal legitimacy, as they've been invited in by the government. The yanks et al have fuck all legitimacy in Syria . They're operating there unilaterally and illegally . Reminding them of that does no harm .

 

[Casually Red]

It also seems among the initial wave of Russian targets they took out a commander of a so called " moderate " FSA group, and hit them all over the show . An outfit supported by the Jordanians and others , and regarded by the yanks and brits as as a "friendly " . So that's yet another massive "fuck you America and Britain " to any notion of Russia needing anyone other than Assads permission to go anywhere in Syria.. Or who to go after for that matter .

Putins setting the down the rules on this show now . Yet again my hat is off to him .

 

[Ax^]

deal with the devil

yay...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Am I wrong in thinking that to beat the Daesh cunts we might need to (temporarily) work with Russia and Assad? What other option is there really?

 

[Ax^]

do people read history at all

or has it gone completely out of fashion


*wanders away from thread*

 

[Geri]

Am I wrong in thinking that to beat the Daesh cunts we might need to (temporarily) work with Russia and Assad? What other option is there really?

Supporting and building the secular, moderate opposition and listening to what they want would be a start.

 

[TrustmeImaJedi]

Those crazy Russians are going to cause World War III.

 

[kebabking]

Am I wrong in thinking that to beat the Daesh cunts we might need to (temporarily) work with Russia and Assad? What other option is there really?

unless we wish to use our own ground troops in Syria? probably none.

the issue is whether Russia and Assad are actually interested in fighting IS - personally i'm unconvinced, as it appears to me that Assads' faction have given up on the Syrian territory outside the areas they currently control and the associated areas that they don't control, but within which the population is friendly to them, or that they need for geo-strategic reasons (continuous territory, access to water/agriculture etc..).

in effect,that Assads' faction has accepted the reality that 'Syria' no longer exists, its now an area on a map where half a dozen small successor states will carve out their own territories - ISland, Al-Nusraland, Kurdland, Assadland etc... Russia, not being stupid, knows it can't put humpty-dumpty back together again when none of the bits of humpty-dumpty want to get glued together, and certainly not with Assad or his faction as top dog without a combat commitment that makes the US's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan look miniscule (both ops had 100,000 troops each, Russia doesn't have 100,000 well trained, well equipped troops, and it certainly hasn't got the logistics capability to keep them fighting x thousand miles from home over borders that aren't friendly).

the current Russian commitment, and the words being used - yes, i know, politicians and words - suggests that Russsia is embarking on a containment operation to help Assad's faction retain control of the areas it currently has, and to help them make relatively small adjustments in territory. if they were genuine/serious about pushing the myriad groups out of Syria to the benefit of the Assad faction, they'd have 300, 400, 500 combat aircraft in Syria. they've not...

 

[TomUS]

I really hope this BBC article is true . According to western reports the first clue the yanks had that Russian bombing missions were imminent was when a Russian general turned up at their door in Baghdad and told them they'd be bombing in an hour, so if they've any mates in the field in Syria they'd better get them the fuck out of there .

How Putin blindsided the US over Syria - BBC News



Which..to be fair..is the absolutely correct attitude to take . One of utter contempt . Russian forces in Syria have legal legitimacy, as they've been invited in by the government. The yanks et al have fuck all legitimacy in Syria . They're operating there unilaterally and illegally . Reminding them of that does no harm .

It was idiotic & very dangerous. Even G. W. Bush wouldn't have been so stupid & reckless.
You'd prefer the Yanks et all not be bombing ISIS in Syria?

Wow. To say the Americans were blindsided by this unorthodox line of communication is to put it mildly. Having had their "clear the air" meeting on Monday night there was an anticipation that though there might be big policy differences, there would be a degree of co-ordination and openness.

Just consider this - the risks of a US fighter plane running into a Russian one with unimaginable consequences has just ratcheted up.

 

[Geri]

It also seems among the initial wave of Russian targets they took out a commander of a so called " moderate " FSA group, and hit them all over the show . An outfit supported by the Jordanians and others , and regarded by the yanks and brits as as a "friendly " . So that's yet another massive "fuck you America and Britain " to any notion of Russia needing anyone other than Assads permission to go anywhere in Syria.. Or who to go after for that matter .

Putins setting the down the rules on this show now . Yet again my hat is off to him .

You are a fucking prick.

 

[Fuchs66]

their ROE will be, errmmm.... robust, and people who complain about the amount of damage western militaries do to things/people they aren't actually fighting are about to get a shock.

Well from the released cockpit footage they are already throwing a lot of cluster munitions around. But that's OK because.......Russia?

 

[Sprocket.]

Just heard a radio 4 presenter talking to a Russian journalist and telling him that getting involved in these conflicts can lead to unprecedented escalation.
I thought kettle, pot, blackened bottom as I switched channels!

 

[teqniq]

Russia strike kills 36 civilians: Syria opposition chief

A Russian air strike Wednesday killed 36 civilians, the head of Syria's main opposition group told AFP, as he accused Moscow of seeking to strengthen the regime.

Khaled Khoja, head of the Western-backed National Coalition which includes opposition groups and fighters, said that local activists and council members had given the names of 36 people who died in the central province of Homs, among them five children.

"All of the casualties were civilians," Khoja said in an interview in New York on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

"So it was very obvious that the Russian intervention was to support the regime, to support more killings inside Syria, and will create a more chaotic atmosphere," he said.

 

[roryer]

You'd prefer the Yanks et all not be bombing ISIS in Syria?

Sorry to join this thread so late, I've been away a while so if I'm misinterpreting your comment TomUS I appologise.

I assume most of us here wish that Washington, the MIC elites and vassals like the UK establishment, were not destabilising the Middle East or engaging bombing raids which were allegedly aimed at a forces some call ISIS.

Neither do I support the Russian government bombing campaign, but if it is accepted, (as I believe the majority of world opinion suggests), that Turkey, Saudi, Qatari governments and NATO, money and arms have been pouring into Syria to arm ISIS / Al Nusra, then targeted bombing to take out these military assets can be justified in strictly geo-political terms.

The moral question of course, is what voice or action to take as an individual?

I find myself on sites like ZH cheering on Putin as he seems to be one of the few who are capable of taking on the evil that pervades in Washington. Then again he is also a representative of a strong government, which while it seems relatively benign compared to those in the West, is not presenting a vision for a particularly free or egalitarian society. Marxism at least was something to aspire to, and support for Russia in the cold war, even during the military state phase, could be justified as a strong state was required for defence from the evil West, which when it fell a Marxist paradise could be built.

Now however, neither Russia nor China appear to offering any alternative to corporatist fascism, so who cares who wins? We all lose anyway.

 

[TomUS]

Now however, neither Russia nor China appear to offering any alternative to corporatist fascism, so who cares who wins? We all lose anyway.

The fight shouldn't be the West vs. Russia. It should be a coordinated effort by the West, Russia, Iran & the Assad regime against ISIS. But this is unlikely given the group as you say, Saudi, Turkey etc is supported by the West who in turn support ISIS. I'd love for the US & friends to sever ties with the evil Saudi gang. We disagree about the aspiration to Marxism, but that's way off topic.

 

[teqniq]

Syrian Rebels Say Russia Is Targeting Them Rather Than ISIS

 

[kebabking]

Syrian Rebels Say Russia Is Targeting Them Rather Than ISIS

much as i'm entirely sceptical about Russian claims that its in Syria to combat IS, rather than purely to prop up Assad, i thinks its probably worth giving the Russians a weeks grace on this - they are in-country, in a contested area, they genuinely do need to carve out a safe area from which to operate. there's no point sending their aircraft 200 miles out to hit IS if they've got rockets and missiles from other groups landing on their runways.

give it a week, if they've not started clobbering IS locations in a week or so then they aren't interested in IS at all. we can then have an argument about whether half-a-dozen anti-IS sorties a week vs a hundred local sorties is a genuine contribution, but we'll have to see what they do..

 

[DownwardDog]

Am I wrong in thinking that to beat the Daesh cunts we might need to (temporarily) work with Russia and Assad? What other option is there really?

Topple Assad (black eye for Vovka and the Iranians), let ISIS mutate into Saudi 2.0 and do business with them for the oil. That would seem to be the smart move.

 

[J Ed]

Topple Assad (black eye for Vovka and the Iranians), let ISIS mutate into Saudi 2.0 and do business with them for the oil. That would seem to be the smart move.

Wow, there are people who actually believe this?

 

[J Ed]

I'm genuinely very surprised that the Stop the War Coalition has decided to oppose the Russian bombing, Rees and German will never get on PressTV or RT again!

 

[SovietArmy]

Those crazy Russians are going to cause World War III.

lol Crazy Russians. Are you ok.

 

[youngian]

This isn't a rhetorical question but can anyone provide some information as to who these non Isis "rebels" are? I'll go out on a limb and assume they are not a happy band of armed constitutional liberals of Cameron's limited imagination.

 

[camouflage]

Sorry to join this thread so late, I've been away a while so if I'm misinterpreting your comment TomUS I appologise.

I assume most of us here wish that Washington, the MIC elites and vassals like the UK establishment, were not destabilising the Middle East or engaging bombing raids which were allegedly aimed at a forces some call ISIS.

Neither do I support the Russian government bombing campaign, but if it is accepted, (as I believe the majority of world opinion suggests), that Turkey, Saudi, Qatari governments and NATO, money and arms have been pouring into Syria to arm ISIS / Al Nusra, then targeted bombing to take out these military assets can be justified in strictly geo-political terms.

The moral question of course, is what voice or action to take as an individual?

I find myself on sites like ZH cheering on Putin as he seems to be one of the few who are capable of taking on the evil that pervades in Washington. Then again he is also a representative of a strong government, which while it seems relatively benign compared to those in the West, is not presenting a vision for a particularly free or egalitarian society. Marxism at least was something to aspire to, and support for Russia in the cold war, even during the military state phase, could be justified as a strong state was required for defence from the evil West, which when it fell a Marxist paradise could be built.

Now however, neither Russia nor China appear to offering any alternative to corporatist fascism, so who cares who wins? We all lose anyway.

Putin's manifesto that he wrote 15 years ago when he was just starting out discussing the problems for Russia as he sees it and what is to be done...

Putin on RUSSIA & MILLENNIUM

 

[teqniq]

This isn't a rhetorical question but can anyone provide some information as to who these non Isis "rebels" are? I'll go out on a limb and assume they are not a happy band of armed constitutional liberals of Cameron's limited imagination.

FSA read the NYT piece I posted above #3499

E2a Actually it doesn't say FSA:

Among the areas hit was the base of a group that had been supported and supplied by the United States and its allies, said its leader, Jamil Saleh. He said the group’s base had been hit severely in Hama Province, wounding eight of his men. Later on Wednesday, American officials confirmed that some groups supported by the United States had been hit.

“We are on the front lines with Bashar al-Assad’s army,” said Mr. Saleh, whose group has recently posted videos of its fighters using sophisticated American-made TOW missiles to destroy government tanks. “We are moderate Syrian rebels and have no affiliation with ISIS. ISIS is at least 100 kilometers away from where we are.”

 

[youngian]

Thanks for that, its sounds like some CIA trained Bay of Pigs type of rag tag battalion.

 

[teqniq]

Yes it is the FSA that has been bombed according to the Moscow Times

Russian air strikes in northwest Syria which Moscow said targeted Islamic State fighters hit a rebel group supported by Western opponents of President Bashar Assad on Wednesday, wounding eight, the group's commander said.

He said the fighters were hit in the countryside of Hama province, where the group has a headquarters.

"The northern countryside of Hama has no presence of ISIS at all and is under the control of the Free Syrian Army," Major Jamil Saleh, who defected from the Syrian army in 2012, told Reuters via Skype.

Saleh said his group had been supplied with advanced anti-tank missiles by foreign powers opposed to Assad....

 

[camouflage]

Thanks for that, its sounds like some CIA trained Bay of Pigs type of rag tag battalion.

Considering that the Russians have stated quite clearly that they consider the Syrian government and is army as an integral part of the war against the various Daesh forces, it makes sense and is consistent with their position that they would target threats to the regime, even those created by the CIA and other agencies. It's more of the Russians crazy 'joined-up thinking' that is such a departure from the US-led approach.