And next, Syria?

[teqniq]

Thanks for that, its sounds like some CIA trained Bay of Pigs type of rag tag battalion.

If as above it's the FSA they are quite a large organisation - possibly the largest non-IS aligned rebel group

 

[not-bono-ever]

Hope the Russians have some kind of hot shit rescue team on standby in case one of theirs goes down. Would be a pr coup if one of the anti assad groups manages to capture a russkie

 

[teqniq]

Seems unlikely. Not even the Americans have been foolish enough to supply anyone with Manpads, in case the inevitable happens.

 

[DownwardDog]

Hope the Russians have some kind of hot shit rescue team on standby in case one of theirs goes down. Would be a pr coup if one of the anti assad groups manages to capture a russkie

The zvezda seat will probably kill him as he goes over the taffrail anyway.

 

[teqniq]

 

[butchersapron]

Excellent. Now we get the reverse-image of the 2002-3 build up. People swallowing carefully planned propaganda, pointing fingers just where they're being nudged to, building credible targets. Or maybe vietnam would be a better comparison - lots of people now retrospectively applauding the US troop build up. And with that the space left for any challenges to the status quo (whether regime style violent authoritarianism or any other) is squeezed to nothing. (And often applauded by people who call themselves revolutionaries).

Truly great stuff.

 

[kebabking]

Excellent. Now we get the reverse-image of the 2002-3 build up. People swallowing carefully planned propaganda, pointing fingers just where they're being nudged to, building credible targets. Or maybe vietnam would be a better comparison - lots of people now retrospectively applauding the US troop build up. And with that the space left for any challenges to the status quo (whether regime style violent authoritarianism or any other) is squeezed to nothing. (And often applauded by people who call themselves revolutionaries).

Truly great stuff.

meaning?...

 

[camouflage]

Regarding the US complaining about it's CIA Mujahids being bombed by the Ruskies...

For months now, after years of headlines confirming the US has been covertly arming militants in Syria for the purpose of overthrowing the government in Damascus, a narrative revolving around tens of thousands of these militants “defecting” to Al Nusra and the so-called “Islamic State” (ISIS/ISIL) has been peddled to the public by the Western media and US politicians to account for the apparent failure of America’s alleged policy of creating an army of “moderates” to both fight ISIS/Al Qaeda and the Syrian government.
In reality, from the beginning, there were never any moderates. Starting as early as 2007, years before the war in Syria began, the US as a matter of policy had long since decided to intentionally fund and support the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood – for all intents and purposes the political wing of Al Qaeda – and begin arming militants affiliated with Al Qaeda itself.
This was revealed in Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh’s 2007 New Yorker article titled, “The Redirection Is the Administration’s new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?

US Complains As Russia Bombs its Terrorists | New Eastern Outlook

If the Russians keep bombing targets that make the US whine like this, at the same time as consistently stating that they are in fact bombing Daesh... it may become a very public demonstration of exactly how entwined Americas tools in the war against the Syrian state actually is (and has always been) with the Takfiris, considering the Russians are doing so at the invitation of the Syrians and thus have access to their on-the-ground human intelligence.

Of course the Syrians could always finger non-Daesh targets, but those may be hard to find.

 

[Teaboy]

Nah, civilians are pretty easy to find for all sides it would seem. Whether or not the people the US has been arming and training are jihadists or not it's hardly been covert.

 

[camouflage]

More from the same article-

By 2011, Al Qaeda’s affiliates in Syria, most notably the Al Nusra Front, began operating nation-wide, taking the lead in the US-backed fight against Damascus. By 2012, when the US State Department listed Al Nusra as a foreign terrorist organization, it was clear even then, that the largest contingent of anti-government forces on the battlefield was Al Qaeda.

The US State Department’s official statement regarding Al Nusra reported that:

Since November 2011, al-Nusrah Front has claimed nearly 600 attacks – ranging from more than 40 suicide attacks to small arms and improvised explosive device operations – in major city centers including Damascus, Aleppo, Hamah, Dara, Homs, Idlib, and Dayr al-Zawr. During these attacks numerous innocent Syrians have been killed.

It is clear that Al Qaeda was not only involved in the conflict since its beginning, but also led it. This betrays current US rhetoric that Al Qaeda had only entered the fight later on, seizing on the chaos created by “moderates” and their fight with Damascus. It is clear that it was Al Qaeda itself that drove that chaos from the beginning, and is still driving this chaos to this day.
First appeared:US Complains As Russia Bombs its Terrorists | New Eastern Outlook

 

[camouflage]

Nah, civilians are pretty easy to find for all sides it would seem. Whether or not the people the US has been arming and training are jihadists or not it's hardly been covert.

Doesn't need to be covert when you have Western Media, they'll look away for ya.

Re civilian casualties, so far the twits have mostly been shown to be the same sort of bollocks as the invisible Russian tank columns that invade Ukraine every other week. However, though I was referring to military targets some civilians are sure to die. "Do you see what you've done?" asked Vladimir Putin.

An optimist knows things can always get worse, let's hope the Americans will now get bored of meddling in Syria and move on (shudders to think where next).

 

[not-bono-ever]

Reuters saying that ground attack with serious iranian troop numbers is imminent.

 

[camouflage]

Listening to Lavrovs press conference in NY at the moment... very high fidelity indeed (consistent, centrality of international law etc), but one wonders what the corporate media will shit-out of it come this evening...

"Ugh!" sez Lavrov, swipes at small child.

 

[Pickman's model]

Doesn't need to be covert when you have Western Media, they'll look away for ya.

Re civilian casualties, so far the twits have mostly been shown to be the same sort of bollocks as the invisible Russian tank columns that invade Ukraine every other week. However, though I was referring to military targets some civilians are sure to die. "Do you see what you've done?" asked Vladimir Putin.

An optimist knows things can always get worse, let's hope the Americans will now get bored of meddling in Syria and move on (shudders to think where next).

dk about an optimist but a pessimist certainly knows things can get worse.

 

[teqniq]

Hama rebel commander: Russia intends ‘to exterminate the Free Syrian Army’

Russia began its second day of airstrikes on Thursday, but instead of hitting the Islamic State, an FSA-affiliated commander along with activists and fighters on the ground say Moscow is in fact targeting FSA affiliates, some of which are direct recipients of American TOW missiles and other military aid.

Russia’s intervention in Syria “is intended to exterminate the Free Syrian Army—no, the Syrian people,” Captain Jameel a-Salih of the FSA-affiliated Tajammua al-Izza brigade in north Hama told Syria Direct Thursday, expressing a sentiment shared by pro-opposition activists and fighters present in the Syrian north.

Russian warplanes struck the Tajammua al-Izza brigade’s base [مقر] twice on Wednesday and three times on Thursday, the head of the brigade’s media office told Syria Direct Thursday.

The Tajammua brigade is one of the recipients of American training and military aid, says an Idlib-based journalist. “To be frank, America trains them and arms them with TOW missiles,” Ibrahim a-Shamali, with the pro-opposition Umayya Center, told Syria Direct Thursday....

 

[camouflage]

Hama rebel commander: Russia intends ‘to exterminate the Free Syrian Army’

That's strange, in the press conference earlier today Lavrov said that Russia would not be targeting the FSA as it considers them a part of the legitimate political process in Syria...

Russia’s intervention in Syria “is intended to exterminate the Free Syrian Army—no, the Syrian people,” Captain Jameel a-Salih of the FSA-affiliated Tajammua al-Izza brigade in north Hama told Syria Direct Thursday, expressing a sentiment shared by pro-opposition activists and fighters present in the Syrian north.

I think the man might be talking bollocks tbf.

 

[teqniq]

Yeah I saw that somewhere earlier on. Fuck knows what's going on

 

[likesfish]

Hope the Russians have some kind of hot shit rescue team on standby in case one of theirs goes down. Would be a pr coup if one of the anti assad groups manages to capture a russkie

Bottle of vodka and a pistol the russians tend to have a "robust" approach to causalties also tend to be realistic if you go down in hostile country

 

[Doctor Carrot]

What a bunch of jokers . Russia isn't acting alone, it's acting in full partnership with the Syrian government , it's army and airforce . They've a level of cooperation and co ordination on the ground that's second to none and far superior to anything the yanks could cobble together . Moreover they're acting in full accordance with international law . Carrying out military activity in a country where that country has specifically invited them to do so .

And these jokers are seriously claiming the Russian plan is doomed to failure...barely a week after the ..wholly illegal ...force they trained and equipped handed over all their equipment to al Qaeda within 24 hours of entering Syria !!! Just weeks after the other outfit they sent in we're all kidnapped . Jokers .

I really hope this BBC article is true . According to western reports the first clue the yanks had that Russian bombing missions were imminent was when a Russian general turned up at their door in Baghdad and told them they'd be bombing in an hour, so if they've any mates in the field in Syria they'd better get them the fuck out of there .

How Putin blindsided the US over Syria - BBC News



Which..to be fair..is the absolutely correct attitude to take . One of utter contempt . Russian forces in Syria have legal legitimacy, as they've been invited in by the government. The yanks et al have fuck all legitimacy in Syria . They're operating there unilaterally and illegally . Reminding them of that does no harm .

I'm not sure you can really laud Russian bombing as 'legally legitimate' when the person inviting them to be his government's airforce is a war criminal himself. Also, what's with the cheerleading? More bombing that will kill innocent people and create more refugees to prop up a murdering despotic regime. Hoo-fucking-ray.

 

[teqniq]

Russia admits targeting non-Isis groups in Syria as airstrikes continue

 

[Patteran]

What a bunch of jokers . Russia isn't acting alone, it's acting in full partnership with the Syrian government , it's army and airforce . They've a level of cooperation and co ordination on the ground that's second to none and far superior to anything the yanks could cobble together . Moreover they're acting in full accordance with international law . Carrying out military activity in a country where that country has specifically invited them to do so .
.

All those words would also apply to the USA in El Salvador, for instance - & a dozen other countries where US military advisers were 'invited in' by a dictator's son.

I don't support western air/drone strikes against IS because of the risk to civilians - it's not a risk, it's the inevitable death of civilians. And there's no reason to believe that Russia will be less reckless with civilian lives.

 

[seventh bullet]

How are things between Russia and Turkey then?

OtToMH, they'd be clashing over the Turkic 'Stans...

Why?

 

[elbows]

I'm not at all up to speed as to the detail of any NY Times website paywall, so apologies if this link doesn't work for some, but they do have some pretty good maps showing reported Russian strikes.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-control-map-isis-rebels-airstrikes.html?_r=0

 

[roryer]

Russia admits targeting non-Isis groups in Syria as airstrikes continue

Yes indeed, and this comment from Zerohedge perhaps shows why Moscow would target the less extreme rebels first.

This is part of Putin's strategy, By taking out the "moderate" rebels, who serve as the supply line middle man for money and weapons provided by the US/Saudi/Qatar/Israel alliance to ISIS, Putin is forcing the US to either: 1) pull out of its Syria strategy because it can no longer support ISIS via the "moderate" supply line, or 2) begin to supply weapons and oney DIRECTLY to ISIS, whereby the US runs the risk of being exposed as the terror facilitator from the get-go. Putin has effectively upped the risk of the US strategy in Syria. If the US abandons ISIS, where will ISIS then turn and direct their terror? Quite possibly Saudi. If the US backs ISIS directly, the US government runs the risk of isolating itself from its European allies and the US people who are tired of the governent's deire for war and it's support of all the wrong parties.

It's an all-win strategy for Putin

 

[laptop]

Why?

R/T relations do rather affect what happens next in Syria...

 

[Casually Red]

Supporting and building the secular, moderate opposition and listening to what they want would be a start.

Finding them would be a start .

 

[Nigel Irritable]

There is something grimly hilarious about the most lobotomised "anti-imperialists" running with the exact arguments liberal imperialists use to justify Western imperial interventions in order to justify Russian imperial intervention. So far I've heard fighting terrorism, justifiable under international law, stability, least bad option and what are you, a supporter of ISIS? What we really need now is someone to argue that bombing civilians is the best way to save civilians and we'll have the full set.

 

[elbows]

Yes indeed, and this comment from Zerohedge perhaps shows why Moscow would target the less extreme rebels first.

I think a quick glance at a relevant map offers a better explanation. The Syrian regime wishlist for territory it is desperate to take back probably doesn't include much ISIS territory, not as first priority.

There are other possibilities. Not many I can think of that I'd speculate on with any sense I was barking up the right tree at this point though.

As for the comment you highlighted, there are many areas I could disagree with it quite strongly. Not got time right now though, so instead I'll quickly draw a picture of a different dimension where US supporting 'terrorists' when it suits them has got them in a bind that Russia can play with. On the propaganda front, Russia can now play with the term terrorist and apply it to whoever they wish to target, and even introduce blatant cynicism and piss-taking into that message if they want, and the US & friends will have trouble coming up with the usual brand of moralising propaganda in response. I mean they'l still try, and can probalby rely on Russia not bothering to pretend to hit ISIS more than everyone else. But its still going to be another example where the horrific rhetoric and new sets of justifications and legal arguments for acts of aggression overseas that the 'war on terror' brought to the party are going to be made use of by far more players than simply the original architects of the war on terror.

 

[Casually Red]

I'm not sure you can really laud Russian bombing as 'legally legitimate' when the person inviting them to be his government's airforce is a war criminal himself. Also, what's with the cheerleading? More bombing that will kill innocent people and create more refugees to prop up a murdering despotic regime. Hoo-fucking-ray.

No it's legally legitimate , international laws pretty clear on it . You not liking someone has no effect whatsoever on its legitimacy .

 

[seventh bullet]

R/T relations do rather affect what happens next in Syria...

And the former Soviet republics in Central Asia?