Air France AF447

[Joe Chi Min]

Air France and Airbus cleared of involuntary manslaughter over 2009 crash

Paris court clears aviation giants over disaster that killed 228 people flying from Rio de Janeiro to Paris

www.theguardian.com

‘
Flight AF447 was en route overnight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris when it disappeared off the radar in the middle of a storm over the Atlantic on 1 June 2009. It took four minutes and 24 seconds for the plane to fall 11,500 metres out of the night sky, during which the stall warning sounded 75 times, according to cockpit recordings.

The plane’s speed sensors, known as pitot tubes, were said to have iced up, turning off the autopilot, sending confusing information to the crew and setting off a catastrophic chain of events in the cockpit.’

 

[Joe Chi Min]

Here’s the transcript of the cockpit recording, both baffling and at the same time completely terrifying.

Air France 447 CVR Transcript

Cockpit Voice Recorder Transcript of Air France 447, an A330 that crashed into the Atlantic after losing airspeed information.

tailstrike.com

 

[danny la rouge]

Mate, don’t be looking at this stuff just before making a flight!

 

[Joe Chi Min]

I was in the same waiting area as the passengers of Malaysia Airlines MH370.

They left the gate next to mine at 11:35pm (11:40pm poss).

I was flying to Seoul on Malaysia Airlines and we left 5 or 10 mins after them.

 

[Elpenor]

Already four threads on this

/pogofish

 

[Joe Chi Min]

Already four threads on this

/pogofish

I did check

If the mods can delete, please

 

[equationgirl]

I did check

If the mods can delete, please

If you want this thread deleted report it. Mods don't often see messages because they're not reading all threads all the time.

 

[NoXion]

Mate, don’t be looking at this stuff just before making a flight!

I mean, statistically speaking one should be far more worried about getting into a car.

 

[maomao]

I mean, statistically speaking one should be far more worried about getting into a car.

Cars are far too dangerous. Thousands of deaths a year. I get in them as infrequently as I can. Planes being slightly safer is little comfort.

 

[NoXion]

Cars are far too dangerous. Thousands of deaths a year. I get in them as infrequently as I can. Planes being slightly safer is little comfort.

I'd say taking a flight is more than "slightly" safer than riding a car. Air accidents and fatalities happen at a much lesser frequency than road traffic accidents and fatalities.

Even so, one's most likely death from any cause is not going to be found on the road. Depending on one's sex and age group, the most likely causes include the classics such as ischaemic heart disease, complications from Alzheimer's/dementia, cancer, and for the young 'uns like myself, accidental poisoning and suicide are more likely ends.

I know you hate cars, but it's a bad idea to let your emotions blind you to the facts.

 

[maomao]

I'd say taking a flight is more than "slightly" safer than riding a car. Air accidents and fatalities happen at a much lesser frequency than road traffic accidents and fatalities.

Even so, one's most likely death from any cause is not going to be found on the road. Depending on one's sex and age group, the most likely causes include the classics such as ischaemic heart disease, complications from Alzheimer's/dementia, cancer, and for the young 'uns like myself, accidental poisoning and suicide are more likely ends.

I know you hate cars, but it's a bad idea to let your emotions blind you to the facts.

Still a leading cause of death amongst teenagers and young adults. And also responsible for far more maimings and cripplings than any of your causes. And that's just the violent deaths, add on the deaths of associated cancers, respiratory diseases and the effects of sedentary behaviour and the totals are a little more impressive. There's also a documented tendency for most people to underestimate harm associated with cars. In other words, I'll be scared of what I like thanks.

 

[NoXion]

Still a leading cause of death amongst teenagers and young adults. And also responsible for far more maimings and cripplings than any of your causes. And that's just the violent deaths, add on the deaths of associated cancers, respiratory diseases and the effects of sedentary behaviour and the totals are a little more impressive. There's also a documented tendency for most people to underestimate harm associated with cars. In other words, I'll be scared of what I like thanks.

What I can find suggests accidents are the leading cause of death, but so far I've not found a breakdown of what proportion of those accidents are due to cars. If we're including collaterals and associations then we'd need a proper breakdown of that too. But sure, you're perfectly free to base your opinions on your feels instead.

 

[Joe Chi Min]

I'll be scared of what I like thanks.

I’ve realised i’m a very scared person. Just terrified of it all of it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I mean, statistically speaking one should be far more worried about getting into a car.

Well, no. If I am driving a car, I have 53 years of experience to call on if something goes wrong.

 

[maomao]

Well, no. If I am driving a car, I have 53 years of experience to call on if something goes wrong.

Reaction times are worth more than 'experience', especially when so much of that experience is of breaking laws and boasting about it as per your previous posts. Everyone over 65 should be retested annually to check they're decaying faculties aren't making them a danger to others (and if they can't afford that or if there aren't enough testers available them they shouldn't drive).

 

[NoXion]

Well, no. If I am driving a car, I have 53 years of experience to call on if something goes wrong.

Commercial air pilots receive extensive training, with higher standards and more frequent assessments than private motor vehicle operators. When was the last time you re-took your driving test?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Commercial air pilots receive extensive training, with higher standards and more frequent assessments than private motor vehicle operators. When was the last time you re-took your driving test?

Last year. I booked a lesson with an instructor, who took me through the current test. Prior to that I took the theory test, and scored 48 out of a possible 50.

Online reactions testing gave me a response age of 28, as I'm 70, more than happy with that.

Whilst typing this, I was musing over how many miles I've driven, it is close to half a million. (Four years of medical repping provided nearly 200,000 miles of that.).

 

[NoXion]

Last year. I booked a lesson with an instructor, who took me through the current test. Prior to that I took the theory test, and scored 48 out of a possible 50.

Online reactions testing gave me a response age of 28, as I'm 70, more than happy with that.

Whilst typing this, I was musing over how many miles I've driven, it is close to half a million. (Four years of medical repping provided nearly 200,000 miles of that.).

Right, so you're perfect and never make mistakes. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for other road users, and this is reflected in the statistics. You're much more likely to have another road user collide with you, than you are to experience a mid-air collision as a passenger in a commercial aircraft.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Right, so you're perfect and never make mistakes. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for other road users, and this is reflected in the statistics. You're much more likely to have another road user collide with you, than you are to experience a mid-air collision as a passenger in a commercial aircraft.

Wind your neck in please. I did not state that I was perfect.

I took the action I took to ensure that my driving was safe, and I hadn't developed bad habits that would endanger me or others.

My eyesight is now better than 20/20 without glasses, post cataract surgery, so as I was going to be continuing to drive, I thought a bit of a check was a good idea. The only thing the instructor highlighted as a 'fail' was my lifelong inability to parallel park, but this is not a safety issue.

 

[NoXion]

Wind your neck in please. I did not state that I was perfect.

I took the action I took to ensure that my driving was safe, and I hadn't developed bad habits that would endanger me or others.

My eyesight is now better than 20/20 without glasses, post cataract surgery, so as I was going to be continuing to drive, I thought a bit of a check was a good idea. The only thing the instructor highlighted as a 'fail' was my lifelong inability to parallel park, but this is not a safety issue.

You're still missing the point by going on about yourself, when you are not the only road user.

 

[maomao]

Right, so you're perfect and never make mistakes.

He's certainly not. He's boasted about speeding in his car on these very boards.

 

[NoXion]

He's certainly not. He's boasted about speeding in his car on these very boards.

I was steelmanning to make a point. Even if one really is a perfect driver, other road users will not be.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You're still missing the point by going on about yourself, when you are not the only road user.

You asked me a question. I answered it. How I could answer a question about me, without referencing me, is a bit of a puzzler.

 

[NoXion]

You asked me a question. I answered it. How I could answer a question about me, without referencing me, is a bit of a puzzler.

You brought up your driving experience as if it's going to make travelling by car statistically safer than flying, but you're wrong.

 

[maomao]

I was steelmanning to make a point. Even if one really is a perfect driver, other road users will not be.

I know. I just wanted to use the opportunity to highlight his hypocrisy.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You brought up your driving experience as if it's going to make travelling by car statistically safer than flying, but you're wrong.

No.You didn't get the answer you were expecting, which left you at something of a loss.

My driving experience is absolutely germane to my answer.

 

[NoXion]

No.You didn't get the answer you were expecting, which left you at something of a loss.

My driving experience is absolutely germane to my answer.

You literally quoted me in response to a post I made talking about the relative safety of cars vs planes. Your experience doesn't change the stats.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You literally quoted me in response to a post I made talking about the relative safety of cars vs planes. Your experience doesn't change the stats.

<Yawn>.

 

[friedaweed]

Plane takes off...

 

[Tanya1982]

Sad for those involved.

Personally, I’ve never really cared about dying in a plane crash. It doesn’t frighten me. Obviously it would for the seconds or minutes before if it was actually happening to me, but in abstract I’ve never been scared of flying.

There is something very lonely about the Air France crash, much like the missing Malaysian Airlines plane. But that’s not plane related - it’s being on a relatively tiny man made thing over deep ocean with nothing but pitch black dark in every direction.