Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well it’s the main one when you’re considering it from the point of view of who’s doing the training, you dumb tit.
Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished
- Thread starter toblerone3
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That popped-up a paywall before I got to finish it but the first half wasn’t particularly convincing. It seemed to be comparing drone strikes against IS with manned strikes against Taliban in a completely different theatre. If drones are deployed more often against non-battlefield targets, it stands to reason they’ll create more collateral damage.
Drones Kill More Civilians Than Pilots Do
For years, the Obama administration has claimed that unmanned aircraft limit collateral damage in the war on terror. The numbers show otherwise.foreignpolicy.com
IIRC Obama got the nickname of Obomber by his first day of presidency, the policy was set out early
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
After the decision to reorient the military to counter peer and near peer foes suggests more pilots will be trainedRead this today.
How the US created a world of endless war
The long read: In 2008, many of Barack Obama’s supporters hoped he would bring the global war on terror to a close. Instead, he expanded it – and his successors have done nothing to change coursewww.theguardian.com
Drone warfare was put in place by President Obama as so called legal humane warfare. He gave it the legal framework in which it works. Whether its actually legal under international law is different issue. He developed it.
The article agues their is a continuity between Obama and Trump. Both anti war candidates.
Obama from his side wanted to create a form of warfare that had more political oversight , reduced civilian deaths, reduced need for ordinary Americans to die abroad.
The problem is that its not necessarily that humane. Civilians do die. Secondly it leads to a war without end. Obama recognised it would not work to end terror threat. Article says Obama was aware of this danger.
Under Obama more military were being trained as drone operators than actual fighter pilots.
So article puts question whether Biden will end up doing the same.
ska invita
back on the other side
From that piece: 35 times more civilian deaths according to the "best publicly available evidence", as cited by a published researcher in the field. That may not be precisely accurate but the trend seems clear to me. Of course figures of civilian deaths are deliberately hidden or uncounted, so this is only ever going to be a rough figure
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Sure, but if drones are more often deployed against targets in built up areas (assasinations) whilst manned aircraft are more often used against battlefield targets (troops), of course the former will kill substantially more civilians. That's due to the way it's used rather than it being a less accurate or more dangerous weapon.
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Drones Kill More Civilians Than Pilots Do
For years, the Obama administration has claimed that unmanned aircraft limit collateral damage in the war on terror. The numbers show otherwise.
IIRC Obama got the nickname of Obomber by his first day of presidency, the policy was set out early
That says that drone strikes in non-battlefield settings kill more civilians than manned aircraft strikes on conventional battlefield settings.
Or with Iran more likely. The West is dependent on China economically.
Yossarian
⏭️
Now that Xi Jinping has reached the "banning kids from playing video games" stage of being mad with power, my money's on the CCP collapsing first.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
as the duke of wellington would have said, it'll be a close run thing
maomao
普費斯
We'll see what happens when he doesn't step down next year. Might be the perfect time to try and grab Taiwan.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
The Trumpists have been saying this for a while.
The more animated of them are claiming that Japan is on the list, too.
Mind, the very same were against any dialogue with the DPRK and wanted a preemptive strike, until 45 met with Kim...
not-bono-ever
meh
In this scenario, war might actually be bad for Chinese business.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A variant perhaps of connolly's they'll never shell dublin
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Can you expand on what you mean by this?
Ru you unlike the article supporting idea of US Drone warfare?
It seems to me that from reading the article that Obama was trying to move away from boots on the ground in long term. With the excesses that came with that ( torture etc) and trying to have way of making US worlds policeman in way that could be seen humane.
Targeted assassination of those US security had defined as terrorists in other countries.
He also attempted to lay down some legal defence of this and political control.
Of course this could be done by actual pilots. I think the point is that this is another risk of casualties and removing pilots makes it risk free from US side.
Obama was supporting using US highly trained Special forces as in assassination of Bin Laden.
So mixture of high technology and highly trained personal.
Obama , I heard him on radio , supports idea of what I would call extra Judicial killing without notifying country in which it happened ( Bin Laden ) as just humane war.
TBF I have problems with one country taking upon itself to be Judge, Jury and executioner of people in other countries.
It creates a dangerous precedent.
It relies for example on US having the monopoly on this kind of high tech assassination expertise.
So the article is saying that Biden may go down this route. Its a possibility. Instead of sending of more US ordinary Joe's to be killed in foreign wars. American public are tired of that.
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Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
It's not just one country taking these decisions. A small group of people. Maybe sometimes just one person.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I agree. The article I posted says the Obama himself took decisions. This is not to have a go at Obama. He created this and took moral responsibility to oversee it closely.
I think what the article is getting at is that once this bureaucracy is in place it takes a life of its own. Future Presidents might not be so fusy.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of reading the Forever War by Haldeman. A classic of Sci Fi. Old but good Sci Fi
en.m.wikipedia.org
He had served in Vietnam.
Its like US forgets its own history.
I cant help feeling Drone warfare and the debacle of Afghanistan shows that West/ US don't learn.
The Forever War - Wikipedia
He had served in Vietnam.
Its like US forgets its own history.
I cant help feeling Drone warfare and the debacle of Afghanistan shows that West/ US don't learn.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Yet when the Russian government, or someone in their military bureaucracy, pursues a policy of targeted assassination in Salisbury the western press is in uproar. Can anyone explain the difference?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The tower in Salisbury is particularly special.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Simple, that was them, this is us.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
China to the rescue
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Also the intended target in salsbury was a spook up to spook shit or ex spook and not really killing people.
Mad islamisis goals as fantatstic as russias and the west spook goals we already run the cold war not sure what cold war 2 is about?
The assorted islamists want to murder anyone who isnts an islamist. Aid workers tourists journalists school children apart from the ones they want as sex slaves.
Mad islamisis goals as fantatstic as russias and the west spook goals we already run the cold war not sure what cold war 2 is about?
The assorted islamists want to murder anyone who isnts an islamist. Aid workers tourists journalists school children apart from the ones they want as sex slaves.
This journalist's coverage of everything before and after the fall has been incredible. Aussie/Afghan working for the BBC.
Unfortunately one of the replies to her latest tweet about the rapidly failing resistance contained footage of Taliban fighters playing football with several human heads. But this is Taliban 2.0 right? I won't post it, I feel a little sick. But there's no point denying what these fucks are doing while their overlords are busy denying it in Doha.
Unfortunately one of the replies to her latest tweet about the rapidly failing resistance contained footage of Taliban fighters playing football with several human heads. But this is Taliban 2.0 right? I won't post it, I feel a little sick. But there's no point denying what these fucks are doing while their overlords are busy denying it in Doha.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
She didn't arrive in Afghanistan till after the Talebans absolute victory became the only bet in town - that's what she was sent to report on, and no one with her experience could claim that they didn't know of the Talebans policies.
The BBC were warned, as was everyone else, that travel to Afghanistan could be extremely dangerous, and that it was by no means guaranteed that the UK government could assist in any attempt to leave should that become necessary. Some Journalists and staff were evacuated, others chose not to - thats not about courage, that's about mitigating danger and reducing exposure.
I like decent journalists, and she is one - I think their work is important, and that sometimes it's dangerous - and sometimes, that danger is deliberate - but people who do dangerous jobs accept that, and do it anyway.
Play dangerous games, win dangerous prizes.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
And?
It's her choice, she's a well informed, bright, full grown adult. If she thought it was too dangerous it's very unlikely that the BBC would have argued.
Choices = consequences.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Watch Under the Wire. It's available on Iplayer for about another 2 weeks. It's about Marie Colvin, journalist with a ridiculous amount of balls. Except now she's got none coz she's dead. Embedded herself in Homs. Watch it, it's very good.
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