Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[trashpony]

You may like to look at the summing up in first trial and guidance given by judge which contradicted case law. I believe that is one of the areas used in appeal.

Except that his last appeal was turned down. Your determination to find him innocent is giving me the heebie jeebies frankly

 

[Athos]

You may like to look at the summing up in first trial and guidance given by judge which contradicted case law. I believe that is one of the areas used in appeal.

Are you claiming to know the basis of this appeal decision?

 

[1927]

Are you claiming to know the basis of this appeal decision?

I thought it was common knowledge that this was one area they were using in appeal.

 

[LeslieB]

Except that his last appeal was turned down. Your determination to find him innocent is giving me the heebie jeebies frankly

I could say the same about people determined to find him guilty though.

 

[Athos]

I thought it was common knowledge that this was one area they were using in appeal.

Do you know whather the appeal was sucessful on this point?

 

[1927]

Do you know whather the appeal was sucessful on this point?

It was a basis of the appeal. That is what you asked me!

 

[1927]

Except that his last appeal was turned down. Your determination to find him innocent is giving me the heebie jeebies frankly

New evidence has come to light since his last appeal.

If his new trial finds him guilty I will accept he's a rapist. If he is found innocent will you accept he's not?

 

[Athos]

It was a basis of the appeal. That is what you asked me!

No, I specifically asked you about the basis of the appeal decision.

So, do you know whether he was he sucessful on this point, or not?

 

[trashpony]

New evidence has come to light since his last appeal.

If his new trial finds him guilty I will accept he's a rapist. If he is found innocent will you accept he's not?

Did you not accept he was a rapist last time he was convicted?

 

[Spymaster]

It's generally not the law but rather the lawyers who are asses, but in the case of sexual offences, the law is too piecemeal to deliver consistent results, and is therefore an ass. No Home Secretary that I can recall has undertaken a thorough review of laws around sexual offences, and it shows.

For example, here new legislation has been introduced to facilitate evidence from vulnerable witnesses etc, some judges (because it's within their discretion) will veto screens and video evidence.
Some judges still allow forceful questioning about a victim's prior sexual history, even though it's long not been deemed a valid path evidentially, and serves mostly to prejudice jurors against victims.
Constant re-categorisation of various sex offences, in terms of the ambit of particular offences, and of sentencing guidelines, also have an effect, with judges having to rely on their clerks to keep them informed as to current practice.

It's all a big clusterfuck, and one that disproportionally affects women and children, but you won't find any Home Secretary willing to take on the issue because it's not a surefire vote winner.

I liked that because it's you, but you have never advanced a better system. Neither has anyone else (except me) so you can be forgiven.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I liked that because it's you, but you have never advanced a better system. Neither has anyone else (except me) so you can be forgiven.

My "better system" is predicated on making a bonfire of current laws and lawmakers, and starting again from scratch with input from anyone who wants to voice an opinion. Majority rule.

 

[Spymaster]

Did you not accept he was a rapist last time he was convicted?

I did.

I wanted him flogged to within an inch of his life and then castrated and fed to pigs.

It seems as though I could have been wrong.

Can you not now accept that he may not be a rapist?

 

[trashpony]

I did.

I wanted him flogged to within an inch of his life and then castrated and fed to pigs.

It seems as though I could have been wrong.

Can you not now accept that he may not be a rapist?

Not really, no. I think a lot of men rape women when they don't think they have. Because they misunderstand what consent is. I'd argue that if a woman is so drunk that she pisses herself, she's not really giving consent, no matter what she's saying. And most rapes are about men willfully refusing to understand what consent is.

 

[LeslieB]

Not really, no. I think a lot of men rape women when they don't think they have. Because they misunderstand what consent is. I'd argue that if a woman is so drunk that she pisses herself, she's not really giving consent, no matter what she's saying.

Ah come on. By that standard every woman who has had sex whilst drunk is a rape victim!

 

[D'wards]

Some may call me a naif, but I do kind of believe the justice system in the UK and USA gets it right in the vast majority of cases. Even more so when there has been unsuccessful appeals. This is why I thought Evans was guilty. If he gets acquitted i'll probably think he isn't. I have been on jury duty and witnessed trials - they pore over every minutae of the case - a lot more than folks on an internet forum (even U75).

This (and some background reading) is why I also think Steven Avery is guilty.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Ah come on. By that standard every woman who has had sex whilst drunk is a rape victim!

You struggle with the difference between 'drunk' and 'so drunk she pissed herself'?

Fucksake.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That's the very evidence that convicted him the first time you bellend.

And when you're batting on the same side of 1927, you might want have a think about what you're saying Spymaster.

It is not a question of who is standing with whom. It is a question of justice.

I have been following this case quite closely, and I agree with Spymaster. I would consider that there is a more than fair chance that he will be found not guilty.

 

[editor]

*Thread title changed to be on the safe side.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

He was released from prison ages ago....

 

[toggle]

Bollocks.

What part of "if it is shown that..." do you not understand?

This, in the context of previous suggestions that the fresh evidence related to her postings on FB.

why did you feel it necessary to discuss false accusation in this context? let alone prosecution for false allegations.




there is no evidence to suggest that false allegations for rape are greater than any other crime. that's under 5% of those reported. and the majority of provable false allegations can be found to be the result of someone else making the complaint or the accuser having been victimized in other ways.

approximately 1% of rapes result in a conviction.

therefore, a failure to secure a conviction is the likely result when someone is raped. it's still the likely result when a rape is reported, approximately 10% of cases are reported.

the problem of rapists getting away with rape is looking a lot like 99,000 poer year compared to under 500 false allegations.

a failure to convict a rapist is far far more likely to be a rapist getting away with it than a false allegation being found out.

this is why i get fucking angry every time false allegation charges are raised as a result of a failure to convict or a successful appeal.

because in all likelyhood, you are discussing prosecuting someone who was raped. and contributing to the myths that cause low conviction rates.

 

[toggle]

Yes. Except, once again, nobody has asked that.

ther4e was absolutely no reason at all to raise false allegations of rape in this context. doing so is part of the problem that causes the low conviction rates.

 

[Spymaster]

ther4e was absolutely no reason at all to raise false allegations of rape in this context. doing so is part of the problem that causes the low conviction rates.

Sorry, toggle. I respect you very highlly.
But you have me wrong here.

Im not fighting with you, so I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

 

[existentialist]

Ah come on. By that standard every woman who has had sex whilst drunk is a rape victim!

If she's extremely drunk, then I think that's pretty close to the truth. I would certainly be extremely cautious about having sex with someone that drunk whom I didn't have reasonable cause to believe was wanting to have sex with me (eg we were in an established relationship). And quite possibly not even then.

But then I have this kink: I like my partners to be conscious, aware, and participating. There's probably some kind of category of porn for that

 

[belboid]

Christ, the misogynist wankers have really come back out for this one again, havent they. The usual bloody crowd, plus an idiot new one!

At least it's useful to mark their cards, I suppose

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I suppose it depends on what the new evidence is as to whether i accept it fully exonerates Evans or not. If it is facebook posts saying "great night with ched last night lol", then thats one thing, if its something less than that then i might not be so convinced. Ill withold judgement until i hear it though.

 

[peterkro]

You struggle with the difference between 'drunk' and 'so drunk she pissed herself'?

Fucksake.

If you ask anyone who has had a major alcohol problem they'll tell you pissing the bed is a major symptom of having blacked out.

 

[Athos]

I suppose it depends on what the new evidence is as to whether i accept it fully exonerates Evans or not. If it is facebook posts saying "great night with ched last night lol", then thats one thing, if its something less than that then i might not be so convinced. Ill withold judgement until i hear it though.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Pointless speculation.

 

[rioted]

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Pointless speculation.

Transphobic?

 

[youngian]

I But then I have this kink: I like my partners to be conscious, aware, and participating. There's probably some kind of category of porn for that

Just reminded of a Viz tabloid spoof; "It's Bonking Britain! Seemingly normal couples using their bedrooms for sordid sex acts."

 

[Athos]

Transphobic?

Yeah, fair point. Hadn't really though about it in those terms, but I won't use that phrase again. Apologies for any offence.