Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Wilf]

I could say the same about people determined to find him guilty though.

This isn't a mathematical equation with precisely balanced motivations on either side. On one side, there's an important principle that the accused should get a fair trial and that all relevant evidence should be put before the court. But on the other there's what we know about rape in terms of the stats on reporting and convictions - and as a crime of power. That doesn't in itself lead to a valid presupposition that he must be guilty in this specific case. However you then need to add in what we know about the events of the night, what was specifically reported in the first trial. We don't know what the new evidence is, but it's unlikely to wipe all of that out (of course we'll have to wait and see). But when you keep all that in view it's clearly nonsense to suggest those on either side of this argument have parallel motivations.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you ask anyone who has had a major alcohol problem they'll tell you pissing the bed is a major symptom of having blacked out.

i never pissed the bed. what was i doing wrong?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

i never pissed the bed. what was i doing wrong?

I've never pissed the bed either. But last night my m-i-l was round and fessed that Frau Bahn has a sister that was not known about (dad's daughter) and it all got animated. I woke this morning with no recollection of this revelation at all. None. Three bottles of red done that. I'm kicking wine in to touch as of RIGHT NOW.

 

[RubyBlue]

I've never pissed the bed but I have been in total blackouts before with people not realising I am totally off my face - I come across as being a little drunk when in reality I'm out of it and have no recollection the following day.

 

[cantsin]

slight variation, but the classic 'stumble out of bed in dead of night, go over to chair, try to lift imaginary toilet lid, piss all over clothes, go back to bed' routine was standard m.o. for me at one stage back in the day ( pre E ) - missus was always duly impressed.

 

[Sasaferrato]

He was released from prison ages ago....

He was indeed, having served half of the sentence.

On release, he had two options. He could get on with his life as best he could, being known as a convicted rapist, or he could open a huge can of worms, and appeal. He choose to appeal, and his conviction was quashed as unsafe. The judge, not the CPS, ordered a re-trial.

Once the second trial is over, then we will know whether or not he was guilty of rape.

Only one question you need to ask yourself; a guilty man, knowing he was guilty, and knowing that any subsequent re-trial was highly likely to find him so, would that man appeal? Knowing that if he had not appealed, the matter would gradually be forgotten, whereas the appeal has put him on the front pages again.

It is of course possible that Evan's hubris is of such a level, that he feels that because he says it, it is so. I doubt that though.

Time will tell, as always.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Transphobic?

Not really. A meme of great antiquity, meaning that if circumstances were different, so would the outcome.

Stop trying to find offence where none is intended.

 

[belboid]

Only one question you need to ask yourself; a guilty man, knowing he was guilty, and knowing that any subsequent re-trial was highly likely to find him so, would that man appeal? Knowing that if he had not appealed, the matter would gradually be forgotten, whereas the appeal has put him on the front pages again.

that is one of the most ignorant and stupid comments I've ever read. Of course he fucking would. Not just because he was arrogant, but to keep his partner (and her rich father) onside, or maybe, as seemed obvious from everything he admitted to in the trial, because he doesn't understand what rape is.

 

[butchersapron]

He was indeed, having served half of the sentence.

On release, he had two options. He could get on with his life as best he could, being known as a convicted rapist, or he could open a huge can of worms, and appeal. He choose to appeal, and his conviction was quashed as unsafe. The judge, not the CPS, ordered a re-trial.

Once the second trial is over, then we will know whether or not he was guilty of rape.

Only one question you need to ask yourself; a guilty man, knowing he was guilty, and knowing that any subsequent re-trial was highly likely to find him so, would that man appeal? Knowing that if he had not appealed, the matter would gradually be forgotten, whereas the appeal has put him on the front pages again.

It is of course possible that Evan's hubris is of such a level, that he feels that because he says it, it is so. I doubt that though.

Time will tell, as always.

So, in your legal opinion, an appeal is - in itself - evidence for acquittal?

Prat.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

He was indeed, having served half of the sentence.

On release, he had two options. He could get on with his life as best he could, being known as a convicted rapist, or he could open a huge can of worms, and appeal. He choose to appeal, and his conviction was quashed as unsafe. The judge, not the CPS, ordered a re-trial.

Once the second trial is over, then we will know whether or not he was guilty of rape.

Only one question you need to ask yourself; a guilty man, knowing he was guilty, and knowing that any subsequent re-trial was highly likely to find him so, would that man appeal? Knowing that if he had not appealed, the matter would gradually be forgotten, whereas the appeal has put him on the front pages again.

It is of course possible that Evan's hubris is of such a level, that he feels that because he says it, it is so. I doubt that though.

Time will tell, as always.

There's the small matter of not getting his football career back unless exonerated. I'd say that was a pretty major motivator.

 

[Sasaferrato]

slight variation, but the classic 'stumble out of bed in dead of night, go over to chair, try to lift imaginary toilet lid, piss all over clothes, go back to bed' routine was standard m.o. for me at one stage back in the day ( pre E ) - missus was always duly impressed.

One of the Scots Guards CSMs, went on the Queens Birthday Parade in 1979, with six stitches under his Bearskin. He got up, opened the wardrobe and started pissing over his wife's beautiful new dress. She hit him with a bedside lamp. The reason I know is that I worked with his Mrs when I was doing a geriatric course at the Royal Hospital Chelsea. I got invited to the do in Chelsea Barracks that night, it was amazing. I was stilled pissed at 6 PM the following day, mind you, I didn't get to bed until 9 AM. The champagne breakfast was catered for 100, but due to light-weight fallout, there were only 20 of us left.

 

[Sasaferrato]

There's the small matter of not getting his football career back unless exonerated. I'd say that was a pretty major motivator.

His football career is finished, win or lose. Even if he is acquitted on re-trial, there isn't a club that will touch him. Sunderland's behaviour re Johnson has seen to that. Every club now wants to be squeaky clean re sex offenders.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

His football career is finished, win or lose. Even if he is acquitted on re-trial, there isn't a club that will touch him. Sunderland's behaviour re Johnson has seen to that. Every club now wants to be squeaky clean re sex offenders.

He had plenty of offers when he was released from prison. It was only after pressure from fans and sponsors that the offers were revoked. Of course, if he's exonerated nobody will have anything to pressure them over.

 

[Spymaster]

His football career is finished, win or lose. Even if he is acquitted on re-trial, there isn't a club that will touch him. Sunderland's behaviour re Johnson has seen to that. Every club now wants to be squeaky clean re sex offenders.

If he's found not guilty he'll definitely get signed.

 

[bluescreen]

New evidence has come to light since his last appeal.

If his new trial finds him guilty I will accept he's a rapist. If he is found innocent will you accept he's not?

Fuck that. If he's found not guilty, all that's been found is that the prosecution haven't proved their case.

 

[Spymaster]

Fuck that. If he's found not guilty, all that's been found is that the prosecution haven't proved their case.

Phwoar, that's outrageous!

 

[bluescreen]

Phwoar, that's outrageous!

British justice, innit.

 

[Spymaster]

British justice, innit.

Well no. Quite the opposite, tbh.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Well it's innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law.

Being found not guilty not 100 percent accurate as to whether they are actually innocent or guilty.

 

[bluescreen]

Well no. Quite the opposite, tbh.

Meaning? It is always open to the judge to say that the accused leaves the dock without a stain on his character.

 

[Spymaster]

Meaning?

Meaning a defendant found not guilty is absolutely entitled to be treated as such, ffs.

Christ almighty.

 

[Spymaster]

It is always open to the judge to say that the accused leaves the dock without a stain on his character.

So in cases where the judge hasn't said that and the defendant's been acquitted, there's some doubt?

 

[bluescreen]

Meaning a defendant found not guilty is absolutely entitled to be treated as such, ffs.

Christ almighty.

Entitled in law. Can't disqualify him from a job or DBS check or anything. Doesn't stop people having an opinion about his character.

 

[Athos]

He was indeed, having served half of the sentence.

On release, he had two options. He could get on with his life as best he could, being known as a convicted rapist, or he could open a huge can of worms, and appeal. He choose to appeal, and his conviction was quashed as unsafe. The judge, not the CPS, ordered a re-trial.

Once the second trial is over, then we will know whether or not he was guilty of rape.

Only one question you need to ask yourself; a guilty man, knowing he was guilty, and knowing that any subsequent re-trial was highly likely to find him so, would that man appeal? Knowing that if he had not appealed, the matter would gradually be forgotten, whereas the appeal has put him on the front pages again.

It is of course possible that Evan's hubris is of such a level, that he feels that because he says it, it is so. I doubt that though.

Time will tell, as always.

This is one of the most fatuous 'arguments' I have ever encountered. Quite telling the depths to which some people will stoop to excuse this scumbag.

 

[Spymaster]

Entitled in law. Can't disqualify him from a job or DBS check or anything. Doesn't stop people having an opinion about his character.

Doesn't stop anyone having an opinion about his character, but it should inform their opinions as to his guilt.

Guilty people sometimes get acquitted but without knowing what evidence led to that acquittal any suggestion of guilt is woefully ignorant.

 

[bluescreen]

Doesn't stop anyone having an opinion about his character, but it should inform their opinions as to his guilt.

Guilty people sometimes get acquitted but without knowing what evidence led to that acquittal any suggestion of guilt is woefully ignorant.

I dunno about you, Spymaster, but what counts as guilt of rape under English law seems surprisingly technical. As for me, I have my own opinion about the character of a man who will fuck a woman so drunk she pisses herself.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If he's found not guilty he'll definitely get signed.

You reckon?

 

[Sasaferrato]

I dunno about you, Spymaster, but what counts as guilt of rape under English law seems surprisingly technical. As for me, I have my own opinion about the character of a man who will fuck a woman so drunk she pisses herself.

I don't think anyone on here is defending his character.

 

[Spymaster]

As for me, I have my own opinion about the character of a man who will fuck a woman so drunk she pisses herself.

Well the law would probably agree with you on that unless she consented.

 

[Sasaferrato]

This is one of the most fatuous 'arguments' I have ever encountered. Quite telling the depths to which some people will stoop to excuse this scumbag.

No, absolutely not. What he did was absolutely appalling. The question is whether it was rape or not. His behaviour was disgusting by any measure, and I am certainly not an 'apologist' for him.

Edited to add:

Please stop conflating a view that he may be innocent, with support for him. Innocent or not, I am not a supporter. It is a reasonable consideration, that a man who has served the sentence, would continue to protest his innocence, because he is innocent. (In the eyes of the law at least.).

What is on trial is not his behaviour, which was disgraceful, but whether he raped the woman. I do think that even if he is cleared at the new trial, no club will touch him, because of his behaviour. If you were a manager, would you have complete faith that he would never do such a thing again on a pissed night out?