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Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

That is all after the fact. There was no evidence it was changed: merely added to. Would you perjure yourself for £25,000?
Again, not answering the questions put to you. Oh, and you seem keen to dismiss the £50,000. If the victim had been offered that amount, say by a newspaper, before giving evidence I just have a feeling you wouldn't be dismissing it.
 
Again, not answering the questions put to you. Oh, and you seem keen to dismiss the £50,000. If the victim had been offered that amount, say by a newspaper, before giving evidence I just have a feeling you wouldn't be dismissing it.

Answer the question I put to you.
 
Answer the question I put to you.
Your question was would you lie under oath for £25,00o?
I think a lot of people would say yes to that , many wouldn't, no point trying to make it personal. It's more about who thinks that the most likely scenario, that two random men would do so.
 
Pac man please try not to take it too personally when people attack you here, its hard but they don't know you they're just reacting to words on a screen .
Who has attacked him? He is a new poster. People have gone really easy on him considering this is the politics forum.
Answer the question I put to you.
Look, if you avoid answering questions you can't start trying to insist that others answer the ones you put to them. You've been on urban long enough to know that.
 
An innocent 'entitled prick' if you don't mind.

sure best British justice you can buy

I hear his rich soon to be father in law who really wants to give his daughter that elusive pony is thinking of suing Gloria Hunniford


"look so he pre booked a hotel room to drag some intoxicated women back to for him and his mates whilst dating my daughter, but he is a good lad"

:thumbs:
 
Who has attacked him? He is a new poster. People have gone really easy on him considering this is the politics forum.
Ok. Was just saying hello . If they're new they might not be fully informed about the fighting rules of the u75 politics forum which they've stumbled into,and the border guards .
 
Your question was would you lie under oath for £25,00o?
I think a lot of people would say yes to that , many wouldn't, no point trying to make it personal. It's more about who thinks that the most likely scenario, that two random men would do so.

Anybody who would risk it, would also have to take into account the hefty prison sentence that would follow, if rumbled. Anyone that would still consider it worthwhile is already likely to have a considerable record of criminality to begin with. Which would disqualify them automatically as suitable candidates. Nothing personal in it. It's just some assume they are less honorable than themselves, as a result of the side they have lined up behind.
 
Anybody who would risk it, would also have to take into account the hefty prison sentence that would follow, if rumbled. Anyone that would still consider it worthwhile is already likely to have a considerable record of criminality to begin with. Which would disqualify them automatically as suitable candidates. Nothing personal in it. It's just some assume they are dishonorable as a result of the side they have lined up behind.
Yes. I prefer to explain by fuckup what others would attribute to malice but each to their own isn't it.
 
oh please you just spent a few hours defending a entitled prick

don't descend into remarks on grammar


whats your angle in defending the accused

aside from repeating he is innocent
 
No filling in the gaps like everyone else on here including you. If have no particular brief for him. I suspect the fact that he is probably a not too bright, entitled dick is half the reason the coppers went for him. Him being guilty as charged etc is a different matter.

Filling in the gaps with things you've made up!
 
It's now clear to me you have no actual experience of how it all works at all do you? Earlier you sort of alluded to some professional expertise. But it was just eyewash wasn't it?
The police made their intentions clear when they arrested them for rape - ahead of questioning them. Nothing to do with me.

I used to be a solicitor, so have a reasonable idea about the process of witnesses giving evidence; enough to know that you're just making things up.
 
That is all after the fact. There was no evidence it was changed: merely added to. Would you perjure yourself for £25,000?

Yet you criticised the victim for having added to her account, even though you could give no examples or evidence of her having done so!
 
oh please you just spent a few hours defending a entitled prick
Nobody is defending Evans here, btw.

What's being defended is the principle that nobody should be found guilty of a crime without their guilt being substantially proven by evidence. In fact it's a fucking shame that this scumbag is the subject of the debate. If this weren't a rape case and the defendant was Ken Livingstone there'd be nowhere near this number of people crying foul, and U75 would be tripping over themselves declaring everything from police stitch-up to Tory conspiracy, over the first conviction.
 
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Before you get too carried away, ask yourself this. Did she give evidence in court? If the answer is yes, then everything she said outside of 'I don't remember' would have been vetted and approved by the professionals, who had put their reputations on the line in rushing to judgement on the matter themselves. So if she went down in flames so did they. It's common practice. Barristers on both sides would go through the witness statements line by line. Inch by inch. Along with their clients. if something erroneous appears they will draw their clients attention to it, and in a lawyerly way of course - point to the possible pitfall. And help them step round it.
Nonsense, prosecution witness don't get any coaching at all.
 
Despite all the froth on here, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it was impossible to have an impartial jury in this case. Since the first trial it has been the Evans camp that has largely shaped the narrative. I'd be surprised if the majority of the jury didn't walk into the court room on the first day with their mind already made up and never wavered. The new evidance presented under promise of a reward helped nundge those who were unsure. What was it, 2 hours to reach a verdict? So probably 1 (2 at the absolute most) starting off with guilty or unsure, and it took 2 hours for the rest to argue them round. That or they just had a natter and eat their lunch.
 
Despite all the froth on here, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it was impossible to have an impartial jury in this case. Since the first trial it has been the Evans camp that has largely shaped the narrative. I'd be surprised if the majority of the jury didn't walk into the court room on the first day with their mind already made up and never wavered. The new evidance presented under promise of a reward helped nundge those who were unsure. What was it, 2 hours to reach a verdict? So probably 1 (2 at the absolute most) starting off with guilty or unsure, and it took 2 hours for the rest to argue them round. That or they just had a natter and eat their lunch.
I daresay many people paid little or no attention to the original trial, it's not like everyone is familiar with the case.
 
Nobody is defending Evans here, btw.

What's being defended is the principle that nobody should be found guilty of a crime without their guilt being substantially proven by evidence. In fact it's a fucking shame that this scumbag is the subject of the debate. If this weren't a rape case and the defendant was Ken Livingstone there'd be nowhere near this number of people crying foul, and U75 would be tripping over themselves declaring everything from police stitch-up to Tory conspiracy, over the first conviction.
I would wait to learn more of the allegation before crying foul pa. Or rather foul, pa.
 
If this weren't a rape case and the defendant was Ken Livingstone there'd be nowhere near this number of people crying foul, and U75 would be tripping over themselves declaring everything from police stitch-up to Tory conspiracy, over the first conviction.

So if this wasn't about rape and it was about someone completely different, who would probably behave differently, people would react differently? WOW. Mind blown. :facepalm:
 
So if this wasn't about rape and it was about someone completely different, who would probably behave differently, people would react differently? WOW. Mind blown. :facepalm:
No. If this regarded a non-rape case with a similar lack of evidence of guilt and the defendant wasn't a wealthy footballer ...

It's a highly emotive issue and that's affecting people's judgement to the extent that anyone with a different opinion "has an agenda", or is fiercely attacked.

There are people not posting on this thread for fear of being labelled rape apologists. There are only about half a dozen or so active participants now.
 
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So if this wasn't about rape and it was about someone completely different, who would probably behave differently, people would react differently? WOW. Mind blown. :facepalm:

Of course it would be different. This case is about balancing the rights of defendants with both the rights of rape complainants and the public interest in preventing victims of rape being deterred from coming forward. If rape was taken out of the picture it'd be a completely different discussion!
 
Despite all the froth on here, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it was impossible to have an impartial jury in this case. Since the first trial it has been the Evans camp that has largely shaped the narrative. I'd be surprised if the majority of the jury didn't walk into the court room on the first day with their mind already made up and never wavered. The new evidance presented under promise of a reward helped nundge those who were unsure. What was it, 2 hours to reach a verdict? So probably 1 (2 at the absolute most) starting off with guilty or unsure, and it took 2 hours for the rest to argue them round. That or they just had a natter and eat their lunch.
So this kind of speculation goes unchallenged but when Joe Reilly does similar, he's jumped on? :hmm:
 
I think too much weight is been given to what she said, it was more than that as the witness said she took the lead, was forceful at times intintiated oral sex and dictated the sexual posissons. He came forward and gave his account, it was more her behaviour than the words she used, and for that reason i think his testimon was overlooked due to perceptions of it being barred unders 41, so it wasnt "thoroughly explored", which is nothing new.
Hi Pac Man, just catching up on this. You started ok with your first post but then it all went crashing downhill. Add to that you've managed to find your way into the most contentious thread, on one of the least welcoming boards on the internet, with a contrary opinion! :D

You're barking up the wrong tree here regarding s41.

There is a view here that the new evidence should never have been admitted IN LAW. The poster who is most vocal about that has hung his whole argument on it and conceded that the second trial jury's verdict was understandable given the admission of the new evidence, but the original guilty verdict would never have been quashed, thus no second trial, if the evidence weren't admitted. "No shit?" I hear you say.

So this argument is that the appellate judges got the law wrong.

They didn't.

The relevant bit of section 41 is section 3 (c) which allows the introduction of a complainants sexual behaviour if:

c)it is an issue of consent and the sexual behaviour of the complainant to which the evidence or question relates is alleged to have been, in any respect, so similar—

(i)to any sexual behaviour of the complainant which (according to evidence adduced or to be adduced by or on behalf of the accused) took place as part of the event which is the subject matter of the charge against the accused, or

(ii)to any other sexual behaviour of the complainant which (according to such evidence) took place at or about the same time as that event,

that the similarity cannot reasonably be explained as a coincidence.

So if it's similar to that alleged by the defendant and took place at more or less the same time.

Kieron Vaughan (for Evans) argued that the the behaviour described by the witnesses was indeed similar. It referred to X taking control, adopting a specific position, and using specific words. People have argued that many people enjoy sex in certain positions, take control, and use certain words. That's true, and Ms Laws (for the prosecution) raised this, pointing out that such behaviour was not unusual. Trouble is, that's not the point. Section 41 does not require the behaviour to be UNUSUAL. It requires the behaviour to be SIMILAR. Vaughan argued that each of these behaviours individually were SIMILAR to what Evans had described, each alone satisfying the requirement, but taken cumulatively they could also reasonably be considered to be beyond coincidence (see section 58 of the appeal transcript).

The judges agreed with Vaughan, in that respect the law was satisfied.

The judges also considered the spirit of the law. That is that sexual behaviour should be excluded if any part of its purpose is to traduce the character of the defendant, which would prevent other victims coming forward, and "to counter the twin myths that unchaste women are more likely to consent to intercourse, and in any event are less worthy of belief".

That's not the case here. As the judges themselves noted very strongly, this has absolutely no bearing on the character of X because she hadn't made any accusations of rape or commented on consent herself.

So the law was good.

Next you will have people taking issue with the potential for the money to have played a part but you dealt with that quite well yourself. The judges determined to allow the jury to decide on the evidence. The jury would have been aware of the reward offered but either decided it was not relevant or decided to acquit on an entirely different basis.

Someone might say to you:
Juries can't object to the admission of particular evidence. That you seem to think they can reveals a profound misunderstanding about the process, and the role of a jury.
.... which of course is a deliberate misrepresentation of the position. The fact is that juries are duty bound to decide on the veracity of evidence admitted, and in this case they either did, and believed it, or they didn't believe it relevant.

I'm sure that's what you were thinking! :)
 
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