About the 20mph speed limit in Wales built up areas? Which goes live tonight..

[maomao]

If cyclists are not expected to obey speed limits I expect it was because 30 was the lowest limit and few if any cyclists can achieve 30, even downhill with the wind behind

Now with a 20 limit I expect the code will be modified to include cyclists where speed limits are concerned (if indeed they are excluded at the moment) after all we expect cyclists to obey traffic lights and give way rules so it would be most strange if they were excluded from speed limits.

Bicycles don't have to have a functioning speedometer as a condition of their roadworthiness like cars do you would need further legislation (and in the process make cycling more expensive). Even if they were mandatory, they rely on being set up correctly and can be made innaccurate just by a change of tyre type.

And breaking thirty is easy on any decent downhill.

 

[hash tag]

I have been stopped by police, 3 times I think while riding a bike; twice while going too fast and once when pissed ( midday day on a Saturday ).
They didn't/couldn't do anything.

 

[Winot]

 

[Winot]

Makes you think

 

[weltweit]

Brand is front page on the Sunday Telegraph.

Are there not indeed more important things to write about?

 

[hash tag]

Brand is front page on the Sunday Telegraph.

Are there not indeed more important things to write about?

You might find he is on the front of most of today's newspapers.

 

[weltweit]

You might find he is on the front of most of today's newspapers.

The 20 mph limit in Wales is more important imo

I won't be buying the Telegraph again any time soon, but I will be doing 20 for a while ..

And I just drove at 20 through a local English village whose limit is 30 and well it feels like walking pace, if logic didn't explain it I would seriously doubt I could cover 20 miles in an hour at that speed!

 

[edcraw]

Time & time again nothing works car drivers up more than being asked to limit the harm they do for the sake of others!!

 

[8ball]

I have been stopped by police, 3 times I think while riding a bike; twice while going too fast and once when pissed ( midday day on a Saturday ).
They didn't/couldn't do anything.

They could do you for dangerous cycling (if so warranted), and I think there is still an old law called “wanton and furious cycling” that is still on the statute books.

 

[platinumsage]

And being drunk, the law is much the same for cyclists as it is for drivers:

Road Traffic Act 1988

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[editor]

Cyclists can get fined for speeding not that it's a particularly relevant to this discussion.

A cyclist caught speeding in Richmond Park has accused police of "hiding behind a tree" after he was ordered to pay more than £600 by magistrates.

Paul Harness, 40, was found guilty of speeding and riding a bicycle without due care and attention when he was clocked doing 38mph down Sawyers Hill by police.

He denied both offences but was fined £400 at Lavender Hill Magistrates' Court and ordered to pay an additional £220 in costs.

London cyclist fined £400 for speeding after being clocked at 38mph in Richmond Park

Paul Harness, 40, lashed out for police for "hiding behind trees" after he appeared at court charged with speeding and cycling without due care and attention

www.standard.co.uk

Do speed limits apply to bicycles? The short answer to this question is no although there are various bylaws in place that could impose speed limits on cyclists.

Does The Speed Limit Apply To Cyclists? | Slater + Gordon

Are British cyclists legally obliged to adhere to the same speed limit regulations as motorists or are they exempt? Find out what are specialist solicitors say.

www.slatergordon.co.uk

 

[Spymaster]

The 20 mph limit in Wales is more important imo

Only in Wales.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Cyclists can get fined for speeding not that it's a particularly relevant to this discussion.

London cyclist fined £400 for speeding after being clocked at 38mph in Richmond Park

Paul Harness, 40, lashed out for police for "hiding behind trees" after he appeared at court charged with speeding and cycling without due care and attention

www.standard.co.uk

Does The Speed Limit Apply To Cyclists? | Slater + Gordon

Are British cyclists legally obliged to adhere to the same speed limit regulations as motorists or are they exempt? Find out what are specialist solicitors say.

www.slatergordon.co.uk

iirc Richmond Park is one of the few (only?) places where the speed limit does apply to cyclists.

 

[liquidindian]

 

[BigTom]

If cyclists are not expected to obey speed limits I expect it was because 30 was the lowest limit and few if any cyclists can achieve 30, even downhill with the wind behind

Now with a 20 limit I expect the code will be modified to include cyclists where speed limits are concerned (if indeed they are excluded at the moment) after all we expect cyclists to obey traffic lights and give way rules so it would be most strange if they were excluded from speed limits.

First 20mph limits were introduced in 1991. Maybe there will be law changes now they are becoming widespread but I doubt it, partly for the reasons maomao stated, and partly because speed limits vary depending on vehicle weight, bicycles weigh a fraction of the weight of cars so arguable if they should have the same speed limits applied.

Cyclists can get fined for speeding not that it's a particularly relevant to this discussion.

London cyclist fined £400 for speeding after being clocked at 38mph in Richmond Park

Paul Harness, 40, lashed out for police for "hiding behind trees" after he appeared at court charged with speeding and cycling without due care and attention

www.standard.co.uk

Does The Speed Limit Apply To Cyclists? | Slater + Gordon

Are British cyclists legally obliged to adhere to the same speed limit regulations as motorists or are they exempt? Find out what are specialist solicitors say.

www.slatergordon.co.uk

iirc Richmond Park is one of the few (only?) places where the speed limit does apply to cyclists.

Cyclists ‘speeding’ in Royal Parks warned they face prosecution and fines

The Royal Parks have put cyclists on notice that if they breach the speed limit for cars in Richmond Park they risk prosecution and a fine.

richmond.nub.news

Yep - down to park rules, which are legally enforceable under local bylaws, not highway code/laws.

 

[Idaho]

The idea that it's hard to drive at our close to 20mph without looking at your speedometer is pathetic. I'm not even a particularly good driver, but as I spend all my working week driving round 20mph zones, I've got used to it. Is easy.

 

[edcraw]

The idea that it's hard to drive at our close to 20mph without looking at your speedometer is pathetic. I'm not even a particularly good driver, but as I spend all my working week driving round 20mph zones, I've got used to it. Is easy.

As usual car drivers make up excuses for why they oppose such measures rather than just admit the truth that they are selfish & don’t want to inconvenienced in anyway what so ever.

 

[editor]

Enjoyed the comments ripping into this fuckwit's fantasy scenario.

 

[hash tag]

As usual car drivers make up excuses for why they oppose such measures rather than just admit the truth that they are selfish & don’t want to inconvenienced in anyway what so ever.

Make up excuses for breaking the law and getting a speeding ticket.

 

[Dystopiary]

Brand is front page on the Sunday Telegraph.

Are there not indeed more important things to write about?

A well-known figure in the entertainment industry being alleged to have raped and sexually assaulted multiple women and girls, and apparently getting away with it for years while the women's complaints were brushed off, is important. Rape is endemic and it being perpetrated by fairly powerful people and covered up needs to be written about more by the press, not less. This isn't just the latest celeb gossip.

 

[Plumdaff]

Enjoyed the comments ripping into this fuckwit's fantasy scenario.

This fuckwit is a rare decent local journalist and is 100% taking the piss

 

[Spymaster]

This fuckwit is a rare decent local journalist and is 100% taking the piss

Extremely obviously so!

 

[8ball]

This fuckwit is a rare decent local journalist and is 100% taking the piss

edit: Oh, the Will Hayward guy. Sorry, as you were.

 

[nogojones]

With the change in speed limits you also need to get you irony detectors calibrated.

I can't see it making much difference round here. The traffic in town is chokka and pootles around about 20 anyway. I tend to only use the van about once a week, as I find it generally easier to walk everywhere. I've had a couple of jobs on over the weekend and noticed there's still quite a few 30 MPH stretches signed and some confused bits.

I have bigger beef with the way traffic is managed in Cardiff generally e.g. diverting drivers away from town and through residential inner city neighborhoods and questionable groundwork contracts for ever changing cycle lanes and traffic lights changes.

After spending a good bit of cash on a useful cycle lane by me they installed new lights to help the riders (only about 1/3 of riders bother with them), but the new timings means there's now a constant tail of cars idling at the bottom of the road.

Plus the council just culled a good few bus routes, but that's OK because no one knows where the buses are going from anyway, as we don't have a bus station and every time there's a sporting event or concert they shut all the roads and you have to guess where the bus might be.

 

[editor]

This fuckwit is a rare decent local journalist and is 100% taking the piss

Hard to tell these days!

 

[Spymaster]

A well-known figure in the entertainment industry being alleged to have raped and sexually assaulted multiple women and girls, and apparently getting away with it for years while the women's complaints were brushed off, is important. Rape is endemic and it being perpetrated by fairly powerful people and covered up needs to be written about more by the press, not less. This isn't just the latest celeb gossip.

Weltweit is trying to do that hipster thing and telling everyone he has no interest in celebrities. Unfortunately he’s fucked it up. I doubt he really thinks that Welsh speed limits are more important than the rape and sexual abuse of young women.

 

[AnnaKarpik]

I suppose in a way I am used to it, when I lived in the strange motoring country Germany people would drive at all sorts of speeds on the Autobahn with impunity (no limits) but almost immediately when you took the Ausfart the limits were very low and were policed. I got used to it.

Germany is where I learned to drive. Inside towns was a default 50kmh (31 ish) unless you went off the main roads into a 30kmh area, any variations on this would be posted. Those 30kmh areas usually had that priorite a droite thing going on too so you rarely got up to 30. People manage perfectly well driving at those speeds, they get where they need to go.

 

[hash tag]

An update from that there London

Welcome to 20mph London: Speed limit cut on over half of all roads

Police reported in 48 of the 99 fatal collisions in London last year that speed was a contributory factor

www.standard.co.uk

"But it has sparked a debate about whether traffic on the capital’s main thoroughfares is being unnecessarily slowed"
According to stats.....

• 8.7 mph to 7.1 mph in central London
• 12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London
• 20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London

BUT, has it effected productivity?

 

[Winot]

An update from that there London

Welcome to 20mph London: Speed limit cut on over half of all roads

Police reported in 48 of the 99 fatal collisions in London last year that speed was a contributory factor

www.standard.co.uk

"But it has sparked a debate about whether traffic on the capital’s main thoroughfares is being unnecessarily slowed"
According to stats.....

• 8.7 mph to 7.1 mph in central London
• 12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London
• 20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London

BUT, has it effected productivity?

I didn’t know this (quote from article):

“Wandsworth’s trial of civil speed cameras on 20mph roads — in response to complaints about speeding motorists — was deemed unlawful by the Department for Transport.”

 

[a_chap]

Also from the article:

Nicholas Bennett, Bromley’s cabinet member for transport, said the Tory council was “unashamedly pro-car”. He said: “We don’t go in for low traffic neighbourhoods, we don’t go in for humps, we don’t go in for 20mph zones

Unashamedly pro-car