A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Karl Masks]

And those rivers and coasts will be polluted by BRITISH excrement. Just as foretold in the Magna Carta. Long live the King, and his shit.

 

[The39thStep]

Labour from outside the UK, presumably. People don't want to work here because it's a shithole and people that aren't being allowed.

How does that increase the costs?

 

[brogdale]

How does that increase the costs?

Significantly the attached Times piece doesn't appear to mention labour costs at all; it seems to focus on the impact of non-tariff barriers being "passed on to consumers".

 

[Karl Masks]

How does that increase the costs?

Basic supply and demand theory I'd assume. With a smaller pool of labour to choose from, the price of that labour can increase. Isn't that why people complain about foreign labour undercutting local wages?

 

[Artaxerxes]

To say nothing of the quality of food. Veg is now much closer to expiry when bought, I find, as well as being dearer.

Bought tomatoes in online shop last month, went mouldy within three days.

Sainsbury's is particularly bad

 

[The39thStep]

Significantly the attached Times piece doesn't appear to mention labour costs at all; it seems to focus on the impact of non-tariff barriers being "passed on to consumers".

sorry brogdale which Times piece?

 

[Serge Forward]

Basic supply and demand theory I'd assume. With a smaller pool of labour to choose from, the price of that labour can increase. Isn't that why people complain about foreign labour undercutting local wages?

Hmm... wages haven't really gone up though.

 

[brogdale]

sorry brogdale which Times piece?

My bad; #13017

 

[Pickman's model]

Basic supply and demand theory I'd assume. With a smaller pool of labour to choose from, the price of that labour can increase. Isn't that why people complain about foreign labour undercutting local wages?

you mean bosses getting away with paying some workers less than others.

 

[Maltin]

Hmm... wages haven't really gone up though.

Average wages have gone up 5.4%. Alas, inflation is much higher so there has been a fall in “real terms” but wages have gone up quite a bit.

Average weekly earnings in Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of growth in earnings for employees before tax and other deductions from pay.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Serge Forward]

I keep hearing that but I don't see the day to day evidence. Must be that I don't know anyone who's had a pay rise anywhere near 5%. And yes, taking in inflation, etc, it's pay cuts all round.

 

[Pickman's model]

I keep hearing that but I don't see the day to day evidence. Must be that I don't know anyone who's had a parish anywhere near 5%. And yes, taking in inflation, etc, it's pay cuts all round.

as you say

Real wages effectively flatlined in lost decade of growth - but there's a glimmer of light

Metals are up by 77% since COVID-19 struck, crude oil prices are up 200% since COVID, and food prices have increased by 40% - which in any given period would be considered very high.

news.sky.com

 

[The39thStep]

I don’t subscribe to the theory that businesses have a right to cheap labour or that it’s the job of the government to source that cheap labour for them . In Mick Lynch’s words ‘everyone needs a pay rise ‘

 

[two sheds]

Everyone does. It would be a lot easier for a government to bring back rent controls, though. I'd have thought that most landlords - certainly those who bought 10+ years ago - would still be making a profit if rents were halved.

 

[Maltin]

I keep hearing that but I don't see the day to day evidence. Must be that I don't know anyone who's had a pay rise anywhere near 5%. And yes, taking in inflation, etc, it's pay cuts all round.

A very small sample but a group of friends on a what’s app chat in September in various industries and roles (although in the same region) were talking about it and all five of us had increases in the year. One factory got a 4% increase, another 10%. Another factory got an increase too and the other who works for a maintenance company also gave frontline staff a cost of living increase (I don’t know what percentages). I was fortunate and got an above inflation increase. While a tiny sample, it’s seems roughly similar to what the ONS report.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Basic supply and demand theory I'd assume. With a smaller pool of labour to choose from, the price of that labour can increase. Isn't that why people complain about foreign labour undercutting local wages?

Less to export so less demand for labour.

 

[Maltin]

Less to export so less demand for labour.

I don’t see less demand for labour currently but possibly we might see that next year.

 

[Karl Masks]

Less to export so less demand for labour.

not exactly a brexit win.

 

[The39thStep]

I keep hearing that but I don't see the day to day evidence. Must be that I don't know anyone who's had a pay rise anywhere near 5%. And yes, taking in inflation, etc, it's pay cuts all round.

Just a quick google search at half time for this year

13% pay rise for thousands of British Airways staff
Stagecoach bus drivers in Aldershot and Guildford 13% and 12%
700 Heinz workers secure pay rise worth 11%
Banbury Barry Callebaut chocolate workers 10% pay increase
300 workers at Gatwick get 21 per cent pay rise
10 per cent pay rise at Glasgow Airport
Glasgow Airport workers win 28.5 per cent pay rise
12 per cent pay rise for Rugby Council street cleaners and refuse collectors
300 HGV drivers at McPhersons win 20 per cent pay rise over two years
Lloyds has offered UK staff a minimum 2,000 pounds 8-13% for lower paid staff
Local authorities have offered school support staff and other council workers a £1,925 pay rise.The offer, if agreed by unions, would mean a 10.5 per cent hike for the lowest-paid and 4.04 per cent for higher earners
Liverpool dockers employed by Peel Ports have won pay hikes between 14 per cent and 18 per cent plus

 

[Duncan2]

Strewth must draw this to the attention of my employer who has been working out what a fair payrise would amount to since we petitioned him in week thirty seven.very complicated calculation it seems

 

[Serge Forward]

Yep, that's workers who struck, or threatened strike action who got a bit more.

 

[editor]

Another Brexit win!

Brexit added almost £6bn to UK food bills in the two years to the end of 2021, affecting poorest households the most, research has found.

The cost of food imported from the EU shot up because of extra red tape, adding £210 to the average household food bills over 2020 and 2021, London School of Economics (LSE) researchers discovered.


As low-income families spend a greater share of their income on food, the impact of Brexit on their purchases was disproportionately greater, they said.

Brexit added nearly £6bn to UK food bills in two years, research finds

Cost of food imported from EU rose because of extra red tape, with poorest most affected

www.theguardian.com

 

[ItStillWontWork]

They didn’t struggle so much before Brexit. If you can’t pay enough once your government cuts off the supply of labour and thereby increases the cost, you ain’t got a business may be more accurate. See also increases in fuel costs since the reduction in supply recently.

So agriculture is an unviable business without a supply of cheap labour to exploit?

 

[prunus]

So agriculture is an unviable business without a supply of cheap labour to exploit?

At the current prices people want/expect to pay for food in this country, yup, looks like it.

 

[The39thStep]

At the current prices people want/expect to pay for food in this country, yup, looks like it.

That doesn't really explain how in July this year the top four supermarkets projected profit for 2021/22 was over £4billion before tax , the Co-op profits of £57m for 2021 and Waitrose, £14.44m.

 

[prunus]

That doesn't really explain how in July this year the top four supermarkets projected profit for 2021/22 was over £4billion before tax , the Co-op profits of £57m for 2021 and Waitrose, £14.44m.

Well, a large proportion, probably the vast majority (?) of those profits will have come from retailing products other than British agricultural ones, but for more precision I suppose one could add “(adding in the retailers’ and other intermediaries’ profit margins)” after “pay for food” without changing the sense of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

That doesn't really explain how in July this year the top four supermarkets projected profit for 2021/22 was over £4billion before tax , the Co-op profits of £57m for 2021 and Waitrose, £14.44m.

Nationalise the supermarkets

 

[The39thStep]

Well, a large proportion, probably the vast majority (?) of those profits will have come from retailing products other than British agricultural ones, but for more precision I suppose one could add “(adding in the retailers’ and other intermediaries’ profit margins)” after “pay for food” without changing the sense of it.

Good question about where the vast majority of those profits will have come from though .

 

[Maltin]

So agriculture is an unviable business without a supply of cheap labour to exploit?

Did I say that?

 

[ItStillWontWork]

Did I say that?

It certainly seemed that way. What was it you were saying then?