A thank you to Brexiteers.

[bimble]

It’s always the same one yep ! I only have the one immediate neighbour, the yoga teaching dog abandoner.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s always the same one yep ! I only have the one immediate neighbour, the yoga teaching dog abandoner.

don't think france will want him

 

[Chilli.s]

Ring him up in the middle of the night and put on a french accent, tell him "ze roof 'as... 'ow you say... blown off"

 

[krtek a houby]

The true meaning of Brexit won't be revealed until the year 50208

Fify

 

[srb7677]

It's obviously untrue that all leave voters are racists, though.

I've never claimed that they were. But go ahead with your attacks on straw men if you feel the need.

I said the racist vote swung it for Brexit. That is a far cry from trying to claim that all Brexit voters are racists which would be ridiculous.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I've never claimed that they were. But go ahead with your attacks on straw men if you feel the need.

I said the racist vote swung it for Brexit. That is a far cry from trying to claim that all Brexit voters are racists which would be ridiculous.

But, as we’ve established, you’ve got no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. Bar what you read on forms and ‘the people you meet’.

 

[srb7677]

But, as we’ve established, you’ve got no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. Bar what you read on forms and ‘the people you meet’.

You yourself are providing ample evidence thatr your head is buried in a bucket. Because twice now I have actually demonstrated the logical connection between anti-immigrant feeling and racism, and anti-immigrant feeling and a desire for Brexit. And that therefore Brexit is an attractive option to most racists for racist reasons.

I have now just pointed that out for a third time.

The evidence of obvious logic might well be unwelcome to you but pretending I have not demonstrated it makes you look ridiculous and blinkered.

Here is some evidence of the obvious....

Prejudice against immigrants was a 'major' factor in Brexit vote, study finds

People who met EU citizens living in Britain tended to have a good experience and were therefore more likely to vote Remain

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Smokeandsteam]

All the much sillier because there were plenty that pointed out the UK economy is heavily reliant on immigration and that exactly this would happen. With added nuance that a UK cut off from the EU is actually less appealing to most of the Anglosphere that they'd prefer to attract here.

Over 1/4 million people - from all over the world and in the middle of a pandemic - came in the UK last year. The idea that only exploited labour from the EU could be attracted here is another remain fantasy that has no substance in fact

 

[Pickman's model]

Over 1/4 million people - from all over the world and in the middle of a pandemic - came in the UK last year. The idea that only exploited labour from the EU could be attracted here is another remain fantasy that has no substance in fact

Yeh exploited labour from elsewhere can come here too. And exploiters are particularly welcomed by this government

 

[srb7677]

But, as we’ve established, you’ve got no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. Bar what you read on forms and ‘the people you meet’.

Here is yet more evidence of the link between anti-immigrant prejudice and support for Brexit....

British Social Attitudes 34

Introduction to the 34th British Social Attitudes Report.

bsa.natcen.ac.uk

So "we" (you and whose army? lol) have demonstrated nothing of the kind beyond your own failure to read properly anything you don't like.

 

[philosophical]

Any leave voters on here are unable to describe how leave works around the land border in Ireland.
It might be because they are anti Irish racists, but that would be (educated) guesswork.
However because they don’t have a solution to the Irish border problem they have invited on (and bollocks to their attempt to retrofit a justification by saying they had a master plan for a United Ireland) it indicated those leave voters are morons.
Here is an invitation to the lurking leave voters. Given the reality of the living experience right now in Ireland, especially the bit that is in the UK, suggest practical solutions as to how leave should work on the border.
What tends to happen next is leave voters say ‘it’s not my problem’. That advances leave voters from morons to cunts.

 

[krtek a houby]

Any leave voters on here are unable to describe how leave works around the land border in Ireland.
It might be because they are anti Irish racists, but that would be (educated) guesswork.
However because they don’t have a solution to the Irish border problem they have invited on (and bollocks to their attempt to retrofit a justification by saying they had a master plan for a United Ireland) it indicated those leave voters are morons.
Here is an invitation to the lurking leave voters. Given the reality of the living experience right now in Ireland, especially the bit that is in the UK, suggest practical solutions as to how leave should work on the border.
What tends to happen next is leave voters say ‘it’s not my problem’. That advances leave voters from morons to cunts.

Personally, didn't have a master plan or anything like that. Was fairly against Brexit and all (voted remain), but the dawning realization that it's a good thing for Ireland (and Scotland) trumps most concerns for the less favorable byproducts of Brexit.

Stressing most. Not all. Plenty of people have been fucked over by it.

 

[philosophical]

Personally, didn't have a master plan or anything like that. Was fairly against Brexit and all (voted remain), but the dawning realization that it's a good thing for Ireland (and Scotland) trumps most concerns for the less favorable byproducts of Brexit.

Stressing most. Not all. Plenty of people have been fucked over by it.

Like it or not the bloody Unionist community in the north of Ireland exists, and has done for hundreds of years.
In my lifetime there has been terrible examples of violent attacks because of the division of that landmass.
Having both the UK and the ROI in the EU diluted division, and the Good Friday agreement has gone a long way to establishing peaceful coexistence.
The leave vote, as we can see in front of our eyes right now, not see as a dawning realisation, threatens the equilibrium that has brought relative peace, threatens it right now.
Leave voters (not you) have fucked it up and now appear to wash their hands of their responsibility to find solutions. Nearly six years on and still they have nothing (do you remember the talk of ‘technological’ solutions?) because a solution that honours what ‘leave’ means is either the dogs dinner of the failing Irish Sea border, or a hard border on the Irish mainland.
Is there an immediate practical solution I am missing?

 

[rubbershoes]

I've never claimed that they were. But go ahead with your attacks on straw men if you feel the need.

I said the racist vote swung it for Brexit. That is a far cry from trying to claim that all Brexit voters are racists which would be ridiculous.

Leave played the anti immigrant card strongly




In the months leading up to the vote, the TV showed large numbers of Syrian refugees moving across Europe. I'm convinced that was a factor in the vote.

 

[Spymaster]

Any leave voters on here are unable to describe how leave works around the land border in Ireland.
It might be because they are anti Irish racists, but that would be (educated) guesswork.
However because they don’t have a solution to the Irish border problem they have invited on (and bollocks to their attempt to retrofit a justification by saying they had a master plan for a United Ireland) it indicated those leave voters are morons.
Here is an invitation to the lurking leave voters. Given the reality of the living experience right now in Ireland, especially the bit that is in the UK, suggest practical solutions as to how leave should work on the border.
What tends to happen next is leave voters say ‘it’s not my problem’. That advances leave voters from morons to cunts.

I voted remain but am not too fussed at leaving and if it pisses people like you off, I'm all for it!

 

[srb7677]

Leave played the anti immigrant card strongly

View attachment 326680


In the months leading up to the vote, the TV showed large numbers of Syrian refugees moving across Europe. I'm convinced that was a factor in the vote.

Of course it was a factor and such racism played it's part. It is and always was blatantly obvious to anyone except those burying their heads in the sand about such unwelcome facts.
We can all remember Turkey being used to attract the racist vote, pandering to both racists and islamaphobes. And we can all remember the anti-immigrant rantings of that darling of the Leave cause Nigel Farage.

In trying to deny that the racist vote swung it for Brexit, the usual suspects here are taking most of us for fools. Supporting evidence is very easy to find if they ignore simple logic.

They also tend to wilfully misinterpret, attacking me and others for trying to say that all Leave voters are racists which we have never said. Merely that enough were to make the difference.

 

[xenon]

I see the old death spiral is still in operation.

 

[The39thStep]

I can see why forums , Blairite or otherwise, kick people off now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Having both the UK and the ROI in the EU diluted division,

Bilge. Both the UK and 26 cos were in the common market / eec / EU for most of the years of the troubles and I didn't see it doing much in eg 1981, 1985 to dilute division. You underestimate the work done by the likes of Bertie ahern, John major, Gerry Adams and John Hume towards the peace process. Don't remember loyalists sticking their necks out for peace until republicans forced their hand

Spoiler

 

[teuchter]

Of course it was a factor and such racism played it's part. It is and always was blatantly obvious to anyone except those burying their heads in the sand about such unwelcome facts.
We can all remember Turkey being used to attract the racist vote, pandering to both racists and islamaphobes. And we can all remember the anti-immigrant rantings of that darling of the Leave cause Nigel Farage.

In trying to deny that the racist vote swung it for Brexit, the usual suspects here are taking most of us for fools. Supporting evidence is very easy to find if they ignore simple logic.

They also tend to wilfully misinterpret, attacking me and others for trying to say that all Leave voters are racists which we have never said. Merely that enough were to make the difference.

Can you remind us what your main point is? As in, even if loads of racists voted for brexit... So, therefore.... what?

Were non racists in favour of brexit supposed to vote for remain instead, or something?

 

[srb7677]

Can you remind us what your main point is? As in, even if loads of racists voted for brexit... So, therefore.... what?

Were non racists in favour of brexit supposed to vote for remain instead, or something?

My point is simple. That the victory of Brexit relied on the racist vote swinging it their way. Some like Farage openly pandered to it.
Brexit is therefore a victory for racism.

 

[Pickman's model]

My point is simple. That the victory of Brexit relied on the racist vote swinging it their way. Some like Farage openly pandered to it.
Brexit is therefore a victory for racism.

Perhaps you have it the wrong way round and it's the non-racists who swung it.

 

[srb7677]

Were non racists in favour of brexit supposed to vote for remain instead, or something?

Non-racists were of course free to vote for Brexit too. But they ought to have sufficient integrity and honesty to ackowledge that they needed the backing of the racists too, without whom they would have lost.

 

[krtek a houby]

Non-racists were of course free to vote for Brexit too. But they ought to have sufficient integrity and honesty to ackowledge that they needed the backing of the racists too, without whom they would have lost.

Behind every non-racist is a racist?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Well, nearly 6 years in and the arguments are exactly the same, so it’s clearly been a success

 

[philosophical]

Bilge. Both the UK and 26 cos were in the common market / eec / EU for most of the years of the troubles and I didn't see it doing much in eg 1981, 1985 to dilute division. You underestimate the work done by the likes of Bertie ahern, John major, Gerry Adams and John Hume towards the peace process. Don't remember loyalists sticking their necks out for peace until republicans forced their hand

Spoiler

View attachment 326697

Where have I underestimated the work done by the people you mention?

 

[Pickman's model]

Where have I underestimated the work done by the people you mention?

You claimed that both UK and 26 cos in EU diluted division -> gfa. But without the people I mentioned no gfa. No reduction in division, insofar as there has been such a reduction tho the way the uup have been relegated and the dup become the largest unionist party doesn't to me suggest a reduction in division.

 

[srb7677]

Behind every non-racist is a racist?

Straw man time again is it?

I never said that as you of course know. Non racists as well as racists voted for Brexit. But there were not enough of the former to win it on their own. The racist vote made the difference.

 

[Spymaster]

Straw man time again is it?

I never said that as you of course know. Non racists as well as racists voted for Brexit. But there were not enough of the former to win it on their own. The racist vote made the difference.

And the non-racists who voted to leave fucked it for the remainers.

This is a stunning piece of analysis you’ve got going on here.

 

[Pickman's model]

And the non-racists who voted to leave fucked it for the remainers.

This is a stunning piece of analysis you’ve got going on here.

Perhaps you have it the wrong way round and it's the non-racists who swung it.

Hmm. You've missed your tack here spy