The vast majority of racists wanted out of the EU.
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A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Any day now, It was in a paper some university lecturer sold me out side a pub. Yes siree any time now.
Taps watch...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
In Portugal everyday we have The Socialist Party in government however what we get is the EU, free of the shackles of socialism
philosophical
Well-Known Member
One day it will dawn on leave voters that it is down to them to square the circle you mentioned.
In the recent past it wasn’t so much of an issue was it?
In that there is a clue for leave voters how it can be resolved, but they are not prepared to see it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you say that like it was a bad thing
That may be true, although it's already a welcome step back from your earlier claim. If we can get away from the cartoon politics though the reality is that the uncouth racism represented within Leave and the sanitised, managerial racism represented among, for example, 'moderate Tories', Lib Dems and the Labour Party (and for that matter the EU itself) of Remain, work hand in hand.
If all racists voted to leave then many of the architects of racist policies who sustained, enouraged and attempted to make political use of that racism supported remain. For purposes of clarity I don't think that makes everyone who wanted to stay in the EU in some way morally compromised.
It wasn't an issue in the recent past because EU membership effectively abolished any border between north and south without requiring one anywhere else, like the Irish Sea.
The unsquareable circle now is entirely due to the fact that we have left the EU, thereby requiring a border between us and it. How we do that in a way that satisfies those with an allegiance to Ireland and those with an allegience to the UK is the impossible dilemma.
No not at all, I was just replying to the claim that all racists voted to leave by pointing out it's obviously untrue.
For the purposes of clarification I don't think everyone who voted to Leave was morally compromised either. But the margin of victory was so small and the racist vote largely backing Brexit so comparatively large that it wouldnt have happened without the aid of the racist vote. That is my fundamental point.
I will however acknowledge that you made a good point when stating that the architects of the hostile environment policies were Remainers. Which has induced me to acknowledge that there were racists on the Remain side too. Hence my concession that I no longer view all racists as Leavers, just most. Enough to have swung it for Leave. Farage was an example of someone who pandered to such ugly sentiments.
Incidentally, I have edited my original post from "every racist" to "almost every racist" being a Brexit supporter.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the thing is you look on the border as an administrative matter whereas it's always been a much bigger thing than that - if the border was really abolished it would have a great impact on the economics of ireland as a whole, because it's dislocated development for the past hundred years. driving from donegal to louth through the six counties without having to go through border checks is convenient. but the border is to say the least very inconvenient for planning for the island as a whole. there are no real reasons why the border shouldn't be actually abolished and a new settlement for ireland reached
It's not obvious by any stretch that racists voted to leave. It's obviously untrue that all leave voters are racists, though.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
jesus mary and joseph, it's as though we hadn't considered this at excruciating length over the past six years
gosub
~#
Sixty-two thousand four hundred repetitions don't make a truth. But it doesn't stop them trying
That first sentence is just rubbish. On every forum and amongst everyone we meet, the racist types tend mostly to be Leavers. It is also logically blindingly obvious that for racist xenophobe types, leaving the EU to "regain control of our borders" and all that shite would be far more appealing than Remain. So of course most racists wanted out of the EU. It is patently obvious both by observation and logic.
You are in denial and faced with this reality are deploying a standard tactic of implying the Remainers were just as bad. When it comes to racism, most of them were not nearly as bad. There is you know a definite link between anti-immigrant sentiment and racism and xenophobia, and an obvious link between anti-immigrant sentiment and a desire to leave the EU to supposedly regain control of our borders. Join the dots, man, instead of trying unconvincingly to deny the obvious.
Repeated denials of the patently obvious do not undo unwelcome facts either.
Yes, I think that's what I was saying more or less.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not at all logically obvious that for racists leaving the eu to gain control of our borders would be far more appealing than remain. consider (although i know you won't) - is it better to have the eu to take action at the borders of the union and for the eu to work in concert with the authorities in countries bordering the european union or in north africa over refugees or to pull up the drawbridge and hope that this country on its own can prevent people coming over the channel or through ireland or whatnot? how the uk would 'take control' of its borders was always painted only in very broad strokes, anyone who gave the matter more than a moment's thought would have realised that instead of taking control of borders leaving the eu meant the uk was more dependent than ever on countries remaining in the eu to stop people coming here. and that this wasn't likely to be something the french or belgians or whoever was going to see as a great priority - because for them it's people leaving their territory for an external country, not going to somewhere whose ministers can raise merry hell in the upper echelons of the eu.
i think you're perhaps not giving this matter the consideration it deserves if you feel that all this is patently obvious both by observation and logic.,
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Brexit helping cause harmful increase in fake ecstasy, study warns
Covid and crackdowns also blamed as researchers find half of pills sold as MDMA at festivals in England contained none of the drugwww.theguardian.com
Huge increase in 'MDMA' not actually containing any MDMA.
Athough TBF reading the article it sounds like the pandemic is more to blame than Brexit.
Brexit even ruining MDMA now
BREXIT is such an endless black hole of misery that it has even managed to make MDMA less fun, research has revealed.
www.thedailymash.co.uk
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
In addition to the avowedly and nakedly racist EU border policy highlighted here, it’s also worth noting that - for the first time - over 1 million foreign nationals were permitted to live in the post-Brexit UK last year.
Your evidence is this is it? Forums and ‘the people you meet’?
You're overthinking this. Leaving was overwhelmingly portrayed as 'patriotic' and 'taking back control' of virtually everything, which clearly appealed to racists. You just need to accept the truism that not all leave voters were racist, but racists would invariably be leave voters.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
By way of contrast you don’t seem capable of thinking about anything very usefully. All you’ve done here is parrot lazy stereotypes from the mainstream media and disgruntled middle class liberals.
I’ve posted a number of research articles on this thread that suggest a myriad and complex set of reasons drove the leave vote.
As for racists, I’d imagine that the EU policy of walling off Europe from refugees would have been very appealing to them.
ETA: the Institute of Directors, the CBI, Cameron, Osborne, half of the Conservative party, Blair etc etc. All remainers: all supporters of racist policies….
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Oh you know that's bollocks don't you. Utter shit. Like David Cameron and Theresa may etc etc were leave voters. You say I'm overthinking this. I think you've picked up a phrase you thought sounded clever - not all leave voters were racist but ... - and didn't think about it at all. You don't think may, the architect of the hostile environment, is racist I suppose
Plus commom sense and painfully obvious logic.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Common sense is remarkably rare and the painful think about your logic is how you twist and turn things without rhyme or reason
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
And don't forget folks, if a middle class liberal thinks something , it's wrong
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Two useful qualities, common sense and logic. A pity you’ve opted for stereotypes and ‘what I think’ instead.
I’ve posted above the details of thousands of leading remainers all of whom have supported, initiated or helped to embed racist policies or practises. Pickmans has directed you to the nakedly racist EU borders policy.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Best post on this thread by a mile.
I also chose common sense and logic which you chose to use as an opportunity to bury your head in a bucket whilst singing la la la I cant hear you.
Again, anti-immigrant sentimiment is often going to be motivated by racism, and is also likely to cause those feeling it to oppose the EU to control our borders.
Join the dots. It's a simple enough equation. Anti-immigrant feelings = racism. Anti-immigrant feelings = support for Bexit. Therefore it follows that most racists will be Brexit supporters. And we all see this to be true all around us.
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