A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Smokeandsteam]

Thanks for that detailed response.

It's interesting that we're sharing divergent working class perspectives from different parts of the country and from different sectors (my Dad was a Labourer and Mum a cleaner, both un-unionised).

That said, I think we can agree on the long and increasingly effective, top-down construction of anti-EU sentiment that culminated in the 2016 result. Where I diverge from your analysis is when you say that "working class people were no fans of the EU anyway". I think that over-generalises from your (sector/geographical) specific and ignores the large proportion of working class voters who did actually vote to remain in 2016, especially when the retired are set to one side.

My experience is that, before the billionaire media kicked off in earnest against membership, the working class people around me and my family were just not aware, interested or engaged in the constitutional/trading arrangements consequent on the shared sovereignty of supra-state membership.

I do not deny that there are regional (and other) variations in outturn, although the research I shared yesterday featured work in working class communities in the South West, London, the East Midlands and the north east suggesting a clear and diverse patterning (I have also read a similar study about ex-mining areas in South Wales but can't find it. But, there is an excellent chapter in Beynon and Hudson's recent book The Shadow of the Mine - sorry Mr Ski - that focuses on mining communities in the North East and South Wales and Brexit) . My main point is that the working class leave vote - in motive and foundation - is distinct from the vote of the leave voting middle classes and the affluent, and that accounts that deposit them together are wide of the mark.

The working class remain vote is a separate issue and another area where there has not been enough thinking and work done. My guess is that it is also distinct from the garbage we see on this thread and FBPE Twitter etc and I would be interested in reading (sorry Mr Ski) any lucid accounts that deal with it.

 

[brogdale]

The working class remain vote is a separate issue and another area where there has not been enough thinking and work done. My guess is that it is also distinct from the garbage we see on this thread and FBPE Twitter etc

Yes, particularly the working age, working class vote.

I've spent years trying to explain to (some) posters on here why working class folk like some in my family and friends were drawn towards the UKIP position in the couple of years preceding the plebiscite, and I know well how effective was the line that conflated correlation and causation for the boomer generation. Yes, in may respects, things were palpably better for the organised working class before we joined the Common Market when the post-war social contract (capital's fear to actually existing system competiton) wrung out concessions. So the narrative that "look things have got worse since we joined Johnny foreigner" was always going to resonate with a generation old enough to remember 'Les Trente Glorieuses', but less so with those who were too young and knew only work under the neoliberal order.

 

[brogdale]

And I should have added, of course, it's the oldies who actually bother voting.

 

[not a trot]

Yes, particularly the working age, working class vote.

I've spent years trying to explain to (some) posters on here why working class folk like some in my family and friends were drawn towards the UKIP position in the couple of years preceding the plebiscite, and I know well how effective was the line that conflated correlation and causation for the boomer generation. Yes, in may respects, things were palpably better for the organised working class before we joined the Common Market when the post-war social contract (capital's fear to actually existing system competiton) wrung out concessions. So the narrative that "look things have got worse since we joined Johnny foreigner" was always going to resonate with a generation old enough to remember 'Les Trente Glorieuses', but less so with those who were too young and knew only work under the neoliberal order.

The working classes talk about nothing else round my way.

 

[brogdale]

The working classes talk about nothing else round my way.

Which bit?

 

[The39thStep]

 

[krtek a houby]

The Express and the Mail.

Are they truly representative of the British working class, though?

 

[brogdale]

Just like the negative solidarity shite they spout about the salaries won by well unionised groups such as the tube drivers.

 

[two sheds]

Indeed, last week they were "essential workers".

 

[Yossarian]

£53,780 a year is apparently the maximum potential wage for one specific shift pattern in Bracknell, though the Daily Mail will probably now consider that the standard wage for lorry drivers - might not be long before they're coming out with headlines like "Greedy drivers hold Xmas to ransom by demanding MORE money."

The supermarket told Yahoo News it is prepared to pay Large Good Vehicle (LGV) drivers an average salary of £45,000 for a 45 to 48 hour week.

A specific shift pattern in Bracknell will even be paid £53,780 a year

 

[ElizabethofYork]

The Express and the Mail.

Are they truly representative of the British working class, though?

You'd think they'd properly understand the idea of supply and demand, market forces and all that capitalist stuff.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

 

[The39thStep]

The Express and the Mail.

Are they truly representative of the British working class, though?

Express went down hill after the Beachcomber column ended and they stopped printing advice on which ‘moderates’ to vote for in the print trade union elections.

 

[Badgers]

 

[Pickman's model]

You ain't seen nothing yet

 

[Badgers]

Another 'ProjectFear' idiot making things up

 

[Badgers]

Another uneducated Remoaner

 

[ska invita]

Another 'ProjectFear' idiot making things up

Lord Sainsbury has given millions to Labour and IIRC at the time the biggest ever donation to the LIb Dems

 

[The39thStep]

Another uneducated Remoaner

Looks like all round to yours Badger

 

[ska invita]

Another uneducated Remoaner

how can xmas dinner in 4 months time be cancelled?

 

[Badgers]

Oh well, never mind

Coca-Cola’s supply chain under pressure due to shortage of cans | Coca-Cola | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Oh well, never mind

Coca-Cola’s supply chain under pressure due to shortage of cans | Coca-Cola | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I understand they also face impending votes for strike action from their Unite organised drivers over long-standing pay and rostering demands. Delicious. Unlike their product.

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh well, never mind

Coca-Cola’s supply chain under pressure due to shortage of cans | Coca-Cola | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Nobody drinks cola anyway

 

[The39thStep]

I understand they also face impending votes for strike action from their Unite organised drivers over long-standing pay and rostering demands. Delicious. Unlike their product.

Yes but prices will rise

 

[MrSki]

Good to see you’ve recovered from the exhaustion induced by posting memes and FBPE Twitter links of pictures empty shelves.

PS. You do know none of those links, bar one, were to books right? I know reading books and learning about things makes you very angry - you’ve raised it many times - and now even felt the need to post links to songs presumably about the appalling habit..

PPS. Now you are restored, and talking of food shortages, what is your position on the plan outlined by the captains of the food and farming industry to save us that we were discussing last week? Full support I’m guessing?

I love reading too. However I do not base reality on what is written in a book I might have agreed with.
The problem I have with a lot of your arguments is you try to contradict peoples' actual lived experiences with a quote from something you have read. Because it is written in a book (or article) does not make it true. What a real person is reporting though is their own reality.
Do you still deny there are food shortages in supermarkets & supply chain issues?

I am certainly not a supporter of captains of industry & fully support unionisation in the work place. Was a TU rep for 6 years in the 90s & think what Bob Crow managed to achieve for tube drivers should be an inspiration to other TU leaders but can't see it happening any time soon.
I post memes & other shite because if I don't laugh at the situation & take it too seriously I might get more depressed.
The working class were mugged off by tax evading billionaires.
Get over it.

 

[Badgers]

Sovereignty

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[dessiato]

This in Lidl is not a joke.

View attachment 286054

It's a jar of chickpeas and a tiny packet of spices. Lidl in Spain also has houmous ready-made


What Lidl doesn't have anymore in Spain is Cheddar, Not Irish either so perhaps nothing to do with Brexit

Mercadona has cheddar.

 

[bimble]

i had no idea we used to export lots of chocolate to the EU.
Apparently Chocolate is / was the UK’s second-largest food and drink export, after whiskey (!)

UK chocolate producers among hardest hit in post-Brexit exports to EU

UK chocolate producers, along with whisky and cheese makers, have suffered the biggest post-Brexit export losses in the food and drink sector, according to latest government statistics.

www.confectionerynews.com

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Mercadona does have it sporadically and it is the real deal
I wonder if the label has changed; presumably that UK M2 012 EC is something to do with its status