A thank you to Brexiteers.

[andysays]

There was an article I read about this very thing. Probably linked to off this thread a week or so ago IIRC. Conclusion, things need to change but how...

Anyway, quite obviously an unemployed person living in a city, for example, who relies on UC to pay their rent / mortgage , isn't going to take up a few weeks work in the middle of no where, if what they earn doesn't cover their rent. Plus running the risk of being without any income, if they have to reapply when the job finishes. Might be More viable for rural unemployed perhaps, assuming their housing costs are less and transport is available.

I agree that many of the jobs which were recently done by temporary low paid workers from poorer parts of the EU aren't immediately going to be taken up by the unemployed in Britain, whether urban or rural.

But my point was that it's our membership of the EU over the decades which had led to the structural changes in the economy which out us where we are now, and those structural changes are very little to do with movement between urban and rural areas within Britain.

As we've seen recently (although the indications were already there for anyone paying attention), many industries have been restructured to take full advantage of the short term low paid workers freedom of movement for workers within the EU has made available, and many of them will struggle to re-restructure in the new situation.

 

[seeformiles]

View attachment 279366

These just edge ahead taste-wise (on my palate anyway!)

 

[bimble]

I agree that many of the jobs which were recently done by temporary low paid workers from poorer parts of the EU aren't immediately going to be taken up by the unemployed in Britain, whether urban or rural.

But my point was that it's our membership of the EU over the decades which had led to the structural changes in the economy which out us where we are now, and those structural changes are very little to do with movement between urban and rural areas within Britain.

As we've seen recently (although the indications were already there for anyone paying attention), many industries have been restructured to take full advantage of the short term low paid workers freedom of movement for workers within the EU has made available, and many of them will struggle to re-restructure in the new situation.

What do you think will happen here in the UK as a result ?
Do you think in due course we will re invent ourselves with a new kind of economy that does not require any short term low paid workers?
Would there still be seasonal farm work in that future or will most farming just not be viable?
Quite interesting this stuff, looks like the Uk has had foreign workers picking its fruit and veg since just after the 2nd world war, EU just made it easier.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/689347/EPRS_BRI(2021)689347_EN.pdf

The UK’s new immigration policy and the food supply chain - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee - House of Commons

publications.parliament.uk

 

[Yossarian]

Isn't the shortage of farm workers a COVID thing, not a Brexit thing? When it's all over there will no doubt be middlemen providing pumpkin pickers from Peru for a pittance - wouldn't be surprised if agricultural workers brought to the UK ended up more exploited than they were before Brexit, since they'll be more tied to a single employer.

 

[bimble]

Isn't the shortage of farm workers a COVID thing, not a Brexit thing? When it's all over there will no doubt be middlemen providing pumpkin pickers from Peru for a pittance - wouldn't be surprised if agricultural workers brought to the UK ended up more exploited than they were before Brexit, since they'll be more tied to a single employer.

Some covid but mostly not that. People are choosing not to come here, even though the gov has allowed 30,000 special visas (exempt from the points based system) and no quarantine for migrant agricultural workers.
eg this is years old before we even heard of covid.

Lack of migrant workers left food rotting in UK fields last year, data reveals

Exclusive: Brexit fears and falling pound left fruit and vegetable farms short of more than 4,000 workers, with senior MPs warning of a crisis

www.theguardian.com

From this year, the UK has its new post brexit immigration system which means that only EU workers with settled status may take up or travel to the UK for seasonal roles below skill level RQF 3. That includes pumpkin weeders.

 

[mojo pixy]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again, I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

 

[Ax^]

These just edge ahead taste-wise (on my palate anyway!)

View attachment 281856

pfft the Fenian Tatyo taste better

 

[Ax^]

What do you think will happen here in the UK as a result ?
Do you think in due course we will re invent ourselves with a new kind of economy that does not require any short term low paid workers?
Would there still be seasonal farm work in that future or will most farming just not be viable?
Quite interesting this stuff, looks like the Uk has had foreign workers picking its fruit and veg since just after the 2nd world war, EU just made it easier.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/689347/EPRS_BRI(2021)689347_EN.pdf

The UK’s new immigration policy and the food supply chain - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee - House of Commons

publications.parliament.uk

can see Boris pondering chain ganging the unemployed to fill the labour gap

 

[The39thStep]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again, I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

I did it , so did a lot my mates after we left school. Pick For Britain: UK workers needed as foreign workers flown into UK amid crisis in farming sector

 

[bimble]

can see Boris pondering chain ganging the unemployed to fill the labour gap

yup. Johnson proposes hi-vis chain gangs as part of crime plan

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again,

The only farm near me was an onion one, a number of mates picked there, it and they stank. I worked at Thorpe Park instead.

I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

Goat fluffer?

 

[Dystopiary]

andysays

Finally read that piece! Very interesting, thanks again.

 

[bimble]

Until reading about them on this here very informative website i didn't even know that Fray Bentos were a thing but look at this cornucopia of good things i noticed whilst queuing for the post office counter yesterday in my nearest shop, sod the vegetables we will be fine. How do you get the lid off the pie tins ?

 

[fishfinger]

...How do you get the lid off the pie tins ?

With a can opener.

 

[The39thStep]

Until reading about them on this here very informative website i didn't even know that Fray Bentos were a thing but look at this cornucopia of good things i noticed whilst queuing for the post office counter yesterday in my nearest shop, sod the vegetables we will be fine. How do you get the lid off the pie tins ? View attachment 281867

Steak and Kidney are the best ones. Serve on two buttered slices of bread and then pour tinned peas around the sides.

 

[Maggot]

All these businessmen moaning that there's now a shortage of foreign labour to exploit with shit wages and conditions.

Doesn't your heart just bleed for them?

being serious for a minute though, realistically for the job of weeding pumpkin fields to be worth considering for UK people i wonder how much they'd have to pay.
Because these jobs are obvs in rural areas so you would mostly need people to move away temporarily from home to go and weed the fields for whatever it is limited number of weeks or months per year when the work exists.
Rent is so high here it would need to be enough money for people to keep paying rent at home and go and live on a farm for a season? Instead of getting a different job, near home, that isn't just a few weeks a year.
I don't really see how this whole thing will get resolved tbh, after decades of relying on seasonal workers from abroad, unless some mad government national service pumpkin program for wayward youth or something. Other than that looks likely there'll just be less food production going on in the UK and more stuff being imported.

The real problem is the supermarkets who buy the vast majority of fruit and veg. Their buying power means that farmers and other food producers are working with wafer thin profit margins and can't afford to pay any more.

 

[krtek a houby]

pfft the Fenian Tatyo taste better

Yeah, but the word "Fenian" tastes bitter.

Even in jest.

 

[Ax^]

and kings Crisps still taste better than both

 

[The39thStep]

The real problem is the supermarkets who buy the vast majority of fruit and veg. Their buying power means that farmers and other food producers are working with wafer thin profit margins and can't afford to pay any more.

I read a really good book on that but can't remember the name of it.

 

[andysays]

What do you think will happen here in the UK as a result ?
Do you think in due course we will re invent ourselves with a new kind of economy that does not require any short term low paid workers?
Would there still be seasonal farm work in that future or will most farming just not be viable?
Quite interesting this stuff, looks like the Uk has had foreign workers picking its fruit and veg since just after the 2nd world war, EU just made it easier.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/689347/EPRS_BRI(2021)689347_EN.pdf

The UK’s new immigration policy and the food supply chain - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee - House of Commons

publications.parliament.uk

Of course I'm not suggesting that Brexit will immediately allow us to re invent ourselves with a new kind of economy which does not require any short term low paid workers.

And of course I'm aware that the UK has had foreign workers picking its fruit and veg since just after the 2nd world war, if not before.

But you appear to be trying to ignore the point that Britain's membership of the EU has been used to restructure large areas of the economy with massive increases in casualisation and low pay, and that this restructuring is not just a coincidence, it's a fundamental part of the purpose of the EU.

I'm not going to pretend I can predict exactly what will happen in the UK as a result, but there is now at least a greater chance for collective action from workers in some industries to improve their pay and conditions, and I welcome that, even if the only thing some people posting here can see is a few empty supermarket shelves.

 

[seeformiles]

pfft the Fenian Tatyo taste better

They’re almost even taste-wise but the Northern version has a better packet with a detailed production process on the rear of the bag (well they did 30 years ago…), has no religious affiliation I’m aware of, is made in Tayto castle where I once went to a brilliant rave in the basement. I rest my case.

 

[seeformiles]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again, I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

I worked picking spuds one summer - long hard badly paid work. If nothing else, it’s given me a good reference point as to what a really shit job actually is.

 

[mojo pixy]

Goat fluffer?

I've never been asked to give anyone an erection at work; I can't deny I have encountered a few. In social care though, a hard on isn't really the worst thing someone might have inside their trousers or under the covers.

 

[seeformiles]

Until reading about them on this here very informative website i didn't even know that Fray Bentos were a thing but look at this cornucopia of good things i noticed whilst queuing for the post office counter yesterday in my nearest shop, sod the vegetables we will be fine. How do you get the lid off the pie tins ? View attachment 281867

I had an urge for Spam a few months ago. It must have been decades since I last had some and it was fucking delicious. I remember opening the tin with the wee key and thinking “Welcome home old friend!”

 

[SpookyFrank]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again, I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

Much agricultural work is a non-starter for young British folk because it happens in the middle of nowhere and the day starts three hours before the first bus. Some picking work is good for transitory van-dwelling folk because they can just park up on the farm for six weeks or whatever but if you're a person with rent to pay on a non-portable residence then farm work is unlikely to add up. Universal credit also makes it harder than it once was to smooth out the feast-or-famine cycle of seasonal work.

 

[mojo pixy]

Much agricultural work is a non-starter for young British folk because it happens in the middle of nowhere and the day starts three hours before the first bus. Some picking work is good for transitory van-dwelling folk because they can just park up on the farm for six weeks or whatever but if you're a person with rent to pay on a non-portable residence then farm work is unlikely to add up. Universal credit also makes it harder than it once was to smooth out the feast-or-famine cycle of seasonal work.

Yes, all that possibly. But also it's hard, badly paid work nobody really wants to do.

 

[Ax^]

They’re almost even taste-wise but the Northern version has a better packet with a detailed production process on the rear of the bag (well they did 30 years ago…), has no religious affiliation I’m aware of, is made in Tayto castle where I once went to a brilliant rave in the basement. I rest my case.

I was in jest with the Fenian remark my bad,

not joking about kings being the better cheese and onion mind

saying that would not mind a bag of Manhattans atm

 

[planetgeli]

I picked fruit and veg on farms near my home (just outside Portsmouth) during summer 1987 and 1988. I remember all the other pickers being locals, most of us were teens doing summer work, as I was. I'm just not sure teens will do that work any more even if they have farms near where they live.

I wonder who else on U75 has done fruit picking in the UK for work? I wouldn't do it nowadays (it's physically the hardest job I've ever done) but then again, I now do another job that we (the British population) seem to want done by someone else

My family all did fruit picking, me included. It was the early 70s, our grandma and my mum did it for extra money, it was piece work, you got paid by the basket. It was shit money. Not fruit as such, we picked beans. Full of women and children. I'd have been 10 at the oldest.

I also picked leeks as a summer job when I was 16. That's the hardest, most boring work I've ever done.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yes, all that possibly. But also it's hard, badly paid work nobody really wants to do.

That certainly doesn't help. But hey it's only food, not something important like writing marketing copy for a recruitment agency that provides marketing consultants for the recruitment industry.

 

[bimble]

It’s a funny thing that the first to leave the EU is also an island. That does probably make the underlying problems a bit more obvious. For instance in Switzerland the border with Italy is crazy busy every early morning & eve with workers coming in just for the day for the higher rate of pay than they could get at home.