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A thank you to Brexiteers.

bimble said:
It’s a funny thing that the first to leave the EU is also an island. That does probably make the underlying problems a bit more obvious. For instance in Switzerland the border with Italy is crazy busy every early morning & eve with workers coming in just for the day for the higher rate of pay than they could get at home.
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Switzerland's not in the EU either. Goes to show how badly May fucked up with her red lines bollocks.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Switzerland's not in the EU either. Goes to show how badly May fucked up with her red lines bollocks.
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I know it’s not in the EU! I don’t know what you mean about red lines, Swiss are not allowing these workers to actually move in just to toil there and then go home again every day. Doesn’t work so well if you’re an island.
 
bimble said:
I know it’s not in the EU! I don’t know what you mean about red lines, Swiss are not allowing these workers to actually move in just to toil there and then go home again every day. Doesn’t work so well if you’re an island.
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May's red lines were mental, she could have screwed a decent deal from the situation, but fucked it right at the start. The cake and eat it thing is what brexiteers wanted, it was never gonna be full on Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte but she ensured that both sides were stymied.


e.g.
Pickman's model said:
Switzerland in the eea tho
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We could have been there. Or single market or some such and yet still had no freedom of movement, which seemed to be the biggie. The EU were prepared to offer massive concessions to avoid the shitshow we currently have, but when she came out with that, there was nowhere either side could go. A heavyweight contender for the worst prime minister of all time, not cos evil like Thatch, just shit beyond words.
 
i thought no freedom of movement was the main one & can't remember what else she came out with, was no to the single market one of them?
eta oh yeah, 'an independent trade policy' was one of them, so thats that.
 
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bimble said:
i thought no freedom of movement was the main one & can't remember what else she came out with, was no to the single market one of them?
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No single market, no customs union, no free movement, no paying to EU budget...

Freedom of movement was the big one, the driver for many to vote leave, not cos racist, but fed up of the lowering standards of living allowing free movement from much poorer nations brings (which is the point of the whole thing). The EU said you can't have one without the other, but had we explored staying in the customs union and/or single market with ending freedom of movement it is my bet they would have gone for it. Indeed Michel Barnier is running as a French politico on exactly that line for France.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
No single market, no customs union, no free movement, no paying to EU budget...

Freedom of movement was the big one, the driver for many to vote leave, not cos racist, but fed up of the lowering standards of living allowing free movement from much poorer nations brings (which is the point of the whole thing). The EU said you can't have one without the other, but had we explored staying in the customs union and/or single market with ending freedom of movement it is my bet they would have gone for it. Indeed Michel Barnier is running as a French politico on exactly that line for France.
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They have Michel Barnier, we have Boris Barmier
 
bimble said:
Do you think standard of living in the UK will improve as a result of brexit?
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For some people, yes. We have already seen truck drivers being offered more cash. Am not expecting sunlit uplands or any of the other bollocks phrases some folk seem so keen to sneer with, but generally for the lowest paid workers I think that there may be benefits for them not being pitted against folk that are prepared to work for lower wages and conditions. For most folk in the middle it will make very little difference, some extra forms for business and so on, which in time will level out and arrangements be made. Some companies may leave the UK cos of it, others will come cos of it.
 
Time will tell, i don't know how they measure quality of life. Presumably the cost & availability of food factors into it somehow.
 
I predict what few gains there will be for those at the bottom will be temporary at best. Brexit was never about providing better pay and working conditions for the less well off and it seems daft to try and frame it that way. Actually, it was supposed to bring in untold millions to the NHS every month, but you would have a screw loose to believe that.

Meanwhile, I predict plenty of stinking rich pro-Brexit bosses will continue to remain rich with some doing very nicely thank you out of the whole farrago.
 
Yossarian said:
In the longer term, the plan seems to be to eliminate pesky humans from the work as much as possible, which probably would have happened with or without Brexit - the start-up costs involved will no doubt accelerate the trend toward mega-farms.

www.wired.co.uk

Brexit and Covid left farms bereft of workers. Enter Dick the robot

Meet Dick, a friendly farmhand who uses a five-pronged wand to electrocute weeds to death
www.wired.co.uk www.wired.co.uk
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For most companies the pesky humans are their biggest expense, so whilst wages may rise sharply in the short term, in the middle and longer terms. the bots are going to start looking more and more competitive.
 
it is interesting that the government keep on saying no to these endless increasingly alarming pleas from the logistics people for special temp visas for hgv drivers same as they gave to farmers. I don't really get why they are doing that.
 
bimble said:
it is interesting that the government keep on saying no to these endless increasingly alarming pleas from the logistics people for special temp visas for hgv drivers same as they gave to farmers. I don't really get why they are doing that.
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Because it would make it look like Brexit was to blame and not lazy brits/johnny foreigner/the EU/Labour/Jeremy Corbyn/your mum
 
bimble said:
it is interesting that the government keep on saying no to these endless increasingly alarming pleas from the logistics people for special temp visas for hgv drivers same as they gave to farmers. I don't really get why they are doing that.
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Why should they ?
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
For some people, yes. We have already seen truck drivers being offered more cash. Am not expecting sunlit uplands or any of the other bollocks phrases some folk seem so keen to sneer with, but generally for the lowest paid workers I think that there may be benefits for them not being pitted against folk that are prepared to work for lower wages and conditions. For most folk in the middle it will make very little difference, some extra forms for business and so on, which in time will level out and arrangements be made. Some companies may leave the UK cos of it, others will come cos of it.
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Who do you think foots the bill for drivers getting more pay?

Also if one firm, say Aldi, pays more and poaches all the drivers, then you'd better hope you live near an Aldi and not one of the shops whose drivers they nicked!
 
glitch hiker said:
Who do you think foots the bill for drivers getting more pay?

Also if one firm, say Aldi, pays more and poaches all the drivers, then you'd better hope you live near an Aldi and not one of the shops whose drivers they nicked!
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A compelling argument for poverty wages :thumbs:
 
The39thStep said:
Why should they ?
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Because if that interview is accurate and in a few weeks there'll be a proper crisis with our food supply people would be cross about it and the gov would look a bit silly then?
I just don't get why they are doing it for farm work but not for drivers.
 
teqniq said:
According to this it's not looking very good:

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The trouble with making claims like this is that when the the UK supply chain inevitably does not collapse in "two to three weeks", Richard Burnett's going to look like a bit of a tit.

I've made a diary note for the 24th of August, "check if UK supply chain has collapsed".
 
Spymaster said:
The trouble with making claims like this is that when the the UK supply chain inevitably does not collapse in "two to three weeks", Richard Burnett's going to look like a bit of a tit.

I've made a diary note for the 24th of August, "check if UK supply chain has collapsed".
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You keep on updating that diary, I’m going to keep making arrows for my bow. You’ll all be competition during this years mass hunger games and i’m getting ready to rumble ;)
 
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