A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Loose meat]

So what number do we think the lad in charge of putting some random Fear figure in the placeholder for the 'Road Hauliers Owner whatever' will decide on today; back up to 100,000K? Maybe down to 30,000? Stick at 60,000K? How about a really big new number just cos it's Friday?

Anything at all, I suppose, except acknowledge owners got away with poverty wges for 12 years or longer - and of course U75 fav media will report it all verbatim, unquestioned.

 

[brogdale]

Yeah, a characteristic of discussion in the P&P of U75 has always been its unquestioning nature.

Fucking dolt.

 

[Loose meat]

We're all going to be rationed soon - it's it's like .. "rolling electicity outages" and all that.

Facking cunt.

 

[brogdale]

It wasn't. Cameron and Osborne were, but the cabinet and the government were split.

of course they was a significant faction within the Tory party that supported Leave, including a handful of Ministers, but the Cameron Government's position was one of Remain.
Looking at the political context of the referendum from the perspective of those not as interested in politics as many of us here, one driver to vote Leave was anti-(Tory)-government sentiment.

 

[Loose meat]

Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy, food banks growing exponentially. Of course the Tories were mostly Remain, apart from the loony nationalists.

 

[ska invita]

one driver to vote Leave was anti-(Tory)-government sentiment.

how many leave voters continued to vote Tory afterwards though?

 

[brogdale]

how many leave voters continued to vote Tory afterwards though?

When the factional takeover had completely repositioned the party to endorse the outcome of the plebiscite; loads did.

 

[brogdale]

Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy, food banks growing exponentially.

Vacuous platitude.

 

[Pickman's model]

Vacuous platitude.

Best song off ruddy yurts' 'cost of pissing' ep

 

[Pickman's model]

Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy, food banks growing exponentially. Of course the Tories were mostly Remain, apart from the loony nationalists.

Yes the current administration was and is pro-food banks, they've opened up since 2016 on an unprecedented scale

 

[brogdale]

Notice the deliberately imprecise use of the word "Leave" which could, and no doubt will, be interpreted in a myriad of ways to justify the twaddle spouted.

Classic time-wasting trolling behaviour.

 

[Pickman's model]

Notice the deliberately imprecise use of the word "Leave" which could, and no doubt will, be interpreted in a myriad of ways to justify the twaddle spouted.

Classic time-wasting trolling behaviour.

If only he'd leave, either voluntarily or through defenestration

 

[glitch hiker]

Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy, food banks growing exponentially. Of course the Tories were mostly Remain, apart from the loony nationalists.

Why didn't Farage call for a second referendum after claiming that, had the results been reversed and with the same tiny margin, he would have called for another vote?

What is democratic about a campaign fought by dishonest actors?

How is making trade more difficult and expensive anti-poverty?

 

[brogdale]

Why didn't Farage call for a second referendum after claiming that, had the results been reversed and with the same tiny margin, he would have called for another vote?

What is democratic about a campaign fought by dishonest actors?

How is making trade more difficult and expensive anti-poverty?

That's exactly what Troll-boy wants.
Until and unless he backs up his twaddle, there's nowt to be gained from engaging.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's exactly what Troll-boy wants.
Until and unless he backs up his twaddle, there's nowt to be gained from engaging.

His twaddle's already backed up, any more and there'll be shit coming out of the sink. We need a plumber to clear the blockage. Perhaps editor might be persuaded to use his skills here

 

[andysays]

When the factional takeover had completely repositioned the party to endorse the outcome of the plebiscite; loads did.

And some extent that factional take over and all that has resulted from it was the consequence of those who Smokeandsteam has labelled Continuity Remainers effectively blocking the less extreme version of Brexit the May government was aiming for.

 

[Loose meat]

Why didn't Farage call for a second referendum after claiming that, had the results been reversed and with the same tiny margin, he would have called for another vote?

What is democratic about a campaign fought by dishonest actors?

How is making trade more difficult and expensive anti-poverty?

Like a parasite on a host, Farage attached himself to a pre-existing sentiment, a growing pre-existing reality for low paid and social housing communities.

What he and the the media did with it was attach their own - different - spins. Beyond Farage and the mainstream media, Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy.

Do you really think the exponential rise in poverty and foodbanks had nothing to do with a half a million (plus) economic migrants from SE EU. Like they just rocked up and employers paid them the same. The truth of that is in the Guardian every day at the moment - employers effectively bemoaning the demise of poverty wages.

 

[Loose meat]

Why didn't Farage call for a second referendum after claiming that, had the results been reversed and with the same tiny margin, he would have called for another vote?

tbh, I don't really understand the question.

It wasn't a football match with VAR. We had a legit national referendum which, in the months after, even the Labour Party demanded needed to be "respected".

Anything else is and was an attempted middle class coup -what the screaming fuck is a peoples vote. Jesus.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And some extent that factional take over and all that has resulted from it was the consequence of those who Smokeandsteam has labelled Continuity Remainers effectively blocking the less extreme version of Brexit the May government was aiming for.

In what way was May's version less extreme? The NI backstop, I guess. Anything else? From what I remember, she was the one who introduced the 'red lines', 'Brexit means Brexit', etc, rewriting history to make out that anything short of full withdrawal from the free movement area, European Court of Justice and common market was 'bino' and a betrayal of the referendum result, drawing explicitly on the playbook of r/w tea party Republican types in the US while cosying up to Donald Trump. May's version of Brexit was in many respects more extreme than the versions being pushed by the Leave campaigns in the referendum.

 

[Raheem]

In what way was May's version less extreme?

It wasn't less extreme, but it wasn't logically possible. She would have been eventually forced to concede to single market membership, or something effectively the same.

 

[Maltin]

It wasn't less extreme, but it wasn't logically possible. She would have been eventually forced to concede to single market membership, or something effectively the same.

Is the current version logically possible? Isn't this the reason why Lord Frost etc are trying to reverse what they agreed to?

 

[Ax^]

The truth of that is in the Guardian every day at the moment - employers effectively bemoaning the demise of poverty wages.

do you keep bring up the Guardian because you pissed off you got booted of the GB news thread?



GB news not being part of the Woke MSM by fact ofit just being shite

 

[gosub]

And some extent that factional take over and all that has resulted from it was the consequence of those who Smokeandsteam has labelled Continuity Remainers effectively blocking the less extreme version of Brexit the May government was aiming for.

It feels like that, but it wasn't. When they eventually got round to debating which Brexit in Parliament the remainers voted for every softer Brexit but couldn't get the numbers to back any of them... But there was a lot of talking past each ither

 

[Raheem]

Is the current version logically possible? Isn't this the reason why Lord Frost etc are trying to reverse what they agreed to?

There's nothing illogical about it AFAICT, unless you think people in Belfast logically have to eat English sausages. Although perhaps David Frost does think that.

 

[brogdale]

It feels like that, but it wasn't. When they eventually got round to debating which Brexit in Parliament the remainers voted for every softer Brexit but couldn't get the numbers to back any of them... But there was a lot of talking past each ither

Important to distinguish between the 'meaningful' and 'indicative' votes.
In the former, the opposition fatally joined the swivel-eyed tory faction to block Brexit and in the latter, all 8 failed because the remainarian oppo lost the swivel-eyed fraternity.

 

[glitch hiker]

tbh, I don't really understand the question.

It wasn't a football match with VAR. We had a legit national referendum which, in the months after, even the Labour Party demanded needed to be "respected".

Anything else is and was an attempted middle class coup -what the screaming fuck is a peoples vote. Jesus.

The refernedum wasn't binding, only advisory. Leave ignored that point convincing people that this vote was binding and thus the outcome should be acted upon. To say nothing of it's dishonesty and to whom it was connected.

I don't know what you think "respecting" the vote means in that context. People were lied to by well resourced wealthy liars who have made like bandits while the rest of us are left with diminished horizons and endless division.

The question is simple: you claimed Brexit is pro-democracy. I asked you how that was in the context of Farage denying that same principle. Brexit has taken people's say in the running of the EU from out of their hands leaving us as rule takers not rule makers with our biggest trading partners.

 

[glitch hiker]

Like a parasite on a host, Farage attached himself to a pre-existing sentiment, a growing pre-existing reality for low paid and social housing communities.

What he and the the media did with it was attach their own - different - spins. Beyond Farage and the mainstream media, Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy.

Do you really think the exponential rise in poverty and foodbanks had nothing to do with a half a million (plus) economic migrants from SE EU. Like they just rocked up and employers paid them the same. The truth of that is in the Guardian every day at the moment - employers effectively bemoaning the demise of poverty wages.

Farage's motives are irrelevant he was part of the pro Brexit campaign, vociferously so. You can't then turn around and dismiss him on those grounds. Remainers were warning about him for years and correcting his lies throughout. Now you wash your hands of him?

I think the rise in poverty has nothing to do with migrants and everything to do with capitalism and the Tory austerity program. Migration has not been a drain on our society financially. Even if it were that would be a fact exiting in a capitalist context wherein only the poor have to pay taxes. We could have taxed the rich and seized their assets

 

[Loose meat]

I don't understand how you phrased the question: Farage isn't even an elected representative in any political institution. Effectively, this Government is a re-elected Leave government.

 

[gosub]

Important to distinguish between the 'meaningful' and 'indicative' votes.
In the former, the opposition fatally joined the swivel-eyed tory faction to block Brexit and in the latter, all 8 failed because the remainarian oppo lost the swivel-eyed fraternity.

Fair assessment, though I would argue rather than distinguishing between meaningful and indicative the fuck up was that all happened post triggering art 50

 

[brogdale]

The refernedum wasn't binding, only advisory.

We have been over this many times; the Cameron administration that legislated for the plebiscite told the electorate that they would be bound by the outcome: