A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Crispy]

It's also a meaningless thing to say under the UK's constitutional system. No law can compel government, so all referenda are de jure advisory. They are made de facto binding by the political devastation caused by ignoring the result.

 

[brogdale]

It's also a meaningless thing to say under the UK's constitutional system. No law can compel government, so all referenda are de jure advisory. They are made de facto binding by the political devastation caused by ignoring the result.

Yes, and the clarity given to the electorate was incontestable.

 

[Loose meat]

You might mean the clarity given by the electorate i.e. an 86 seat majority in effectivly a single-issue General Election.

 

[glitch hiker]

We have been over this many times; the Cameron administration that legislated for the plebiscite told the electorate that they would be bound by the outcome:

View attachment 277669

fair enough

 

[Loose meat]

I think the rise in poverty has nothing to do with migrants and everything to do with capitalism and the Tory austerity program. Migration has not been a drain on our society financially.

I'm going to assume you are young. This is from 11 years ago - pre-Austerity, pre-Brexit. What we might call now old skool populism except the term wasn't mainstream then and no one recognised this as a 'populist' view in plain sight. It's Brown campaigning and failing to win a Generl Election.

The woman is a life-long Labour Party supporter (then), in the North, and a care-worker for 30 years. This was the point Labour lost its soul.

I'll say it again: absent the mainstream spin and Farage spin, Leave was anti-poverty, pro-democracy:

 

[andysays]

The refernedum wasn't binding, only advisory. Leave ignored that point convincing people that this vote was binding and thus the outcome should be acted upon. To say nothing of it's dishonesty and to whom it was connected.

I don't know what you think "respecting" the vote means in that context. People were lied to by well resourced wealthy liars who have made like bandits while the rest of us are left with diminished horizons and endless division.

The question is simple: you claimed Brexit is pro-democracy. I asked you how that was in the context of Farage denying that same principle. Brexit has taken people's say in the running of the EU from out of their hands leaving us as rule takers not rule makers with our biggest trading partners.

<Insert Magic Roundabout GiF here>

 

[brogdale]

Arrant nonsense.

There are points in the history of the LP where it might be said that it had lost its 'soul', (if it ever had one?), but Brown's 'hot-mic' revelation of what he really thought of 'his people' was not such a moment.

 

[not a trot]

Arrant nonsense.

There are points in the history of the LP where it might be said that it had lost its 'soul', (if it ever had one?), but Brown's 'hot-mic' revelation of what he really thought of 'his people' was not such a moment.

Didn't do his election chances much good. I suspect many working class voters were pretty pissed off with his response.

 

[Loose meat]

Exactly, it began to lose the working class.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Brexit has taken people's say in the running of the EU from out of their hands

The people had a say in the running of the EU now.

 

[Colin Hunt]

Exactly, it began to lose the working class.

Labour had been shedding working class votes for a long time before Brown put his foot in his mouth, and has continued to do so afterwards (albeit with a brief Corbyn uptick before Starmer et al. decided to team up with the Lib Dems to lose a culture war).

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Labour had been shedding working class votes for a long time before Brown put his foot in his mouth, and has continued to do so afterwards (albeit with a brief Corbyn uptick before Starmer et al. decided to team up with the Lib Dems to lose a culture war).

Correct. We’ve debated this on here before but I cba to engage with Loose Teeth or whatever his name is.

 

[Loose meat]

Labour had been shedding working class votes for a long time before Brown put his foot in his mouth

Blair lost some. After the Iraq lies. But he still won the third 3rd election.

Anyway, enough of the side dish and back to ... mainsteam spin and Farage spin aside, Leave was anti-poverty and pro-democracy

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Blair lost some. After the Iraq lies. But he still won the third 3rd election.

you’ve had two attempts at this now now and are still wrong.

 

[Artaxerxes]

This is a fucking useless debate without a solid definition of what the working class is.

Spoilers: We do not currently have that definition.

 

[glitch hiker]

The people had a say in the running of the EU now.

the point being that now the UK, regardless of the form it took, has no say whatsoever in rules that affect how we trade with member states.

 

[glitch hiker]

<Insert Magic Roundabout GiF here>

What does that mean?

 

[glitch hiker]

I'm going to assume you are young. This is from 11 years ago - pre-Austerity, pre-Brexit. What we might call now old skool populism except the term wasn't mainstream then and no one recognised this as a 'populist' view in plain sight. It's Brown campaigning and failing to win a Generl Election.

The woman is a life-long Labour Party supporter (then), in the North, and a care-worker for 30 years. This was the point Labour lost its soul.

I'll say it again: absent the mainstream spin and Farage spin, Leave was anti-poverty, pro-democracy:

If you're going to assume I'm at most 11 years old then why are you bothering to even respond? Do you often have political discussions with pre teen kids?

What does any of this have to do with Nigel Farage claiming that if Leave lost by 48% instead of Remain there would be "unfinished business". Do you disagree he said that, as one of the leading influencers of the referendum and its campaign?

This clip was 6 years before the referendum, I don't even...

 

[Ax^]

This is a fucking useless debate without a solid definition of what the working class is.

Spoilers: We do not currently have that definition

pfft all work class people drive trucks

 

[Smokeandsteam]

pfft all work class people drive trucks

work class? Is this a new sociological lens you’ve developed?

 

[Loose meat]

If you're going to assume I'm at most 11 years old then why are you bothering to even respond? Do you often have political discussions with pre teen kids?

What does any of this have to do with Nigel Farage claiming that if Leave lost by 48% instead of Remain there would be "unfinished business". Do you disagree he said that, as one of the leading influencers of the referendum and its campaign?

This clip was 6 years before the referendum, I don't even...

when your whole advisory vote/austerity schtick gets blown up

 

[Ax^]

seriously what the fuck is that supposed to mean meat?

 

[glitch hiker]

when your whole advisory vote/austerity schtick gets blown up

You claimed Leave was pro democracy. I explained to you, through the medium of Farage's hypocrisy, that your claim is unfounded. I also explained how positioning us as a third country we are now rule takers not rule makers. Please explain how any of that is "pro democracy.

I really have no idea what you mean by 'austerity schtick' either.

 

[brogdale]

He doesn't know himself; cruel to ask him for explanation of the attempts at trolling.

 

[andysays]

What does that mean?

It means we have been round and round the issue of the "advisory" nature of the referendum umpteen times before, and it's now time to finally put it to bed...

 

[Ax^]

Zebedee would never of voted for Brexit mind

 

[brogdale]

Zebedee would never of voted for Brexit mind

Er...he's capable of magical thinking.

 

[krtek a houby]

Exactly, it began to lose the working class.

Seem to remember a lot of disillusionment during the Kinnock era.

Perhaps you are young?

 

[Pickman's model]

do you keep bring up the Guardian because you pissed off you got booted of the GB news thread?



GB news not being part of the Woke MSM by fact ofit just being shite

If gbn aren't woke does that mean they're kipping?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Seem to remember a lot of disillusionment during the Kinnock era.

Perhaps you are young?

Or just wrong...