A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Pickman's model]

They're not from "the EU".

They're from private companies who are contracted to supply that product but happen to manufacture it in the EU. The commission has shown that if they were able to stop those exports without the shit hitting every fan in Brussells, they would.

Those vaccine exports are being made despite the EU, not because of them.

Nonetheless they are exports of vaccines from the eu

 

[Spymaster]

Nonetheless they are exports of vaccines from the eu

But it's not how the EU are trying to spin it, nor how many people seem to understand it. See Yoss's post for example. People seem to think (or choose to believe the EU nonsense) that the commission, out of sheer benevolence, has decided as a political bloc to manufacture these vaccines for the greater good and then selflessly give them all away. That's bollocks.

 

[Pickman's model]

But it's not how the EU are trying to spin it, nor how many people seem to understand it. See Yoss's post for example. People seem to think (or choose to believe the EU nonsense) that the commission, out of sheer benevolence, has decided as a political bloc to manufacture these vaccines for the greater good and then selflessly give them all away. That's bollocks.

i'm arguing on the point of fact, not the point of perception. no capitalist body is a force for good. all capitalist bodies are a force for evil. we all know this.

 

[Spymaster]

i'm arguing on the point of fact, not the point of perception. no capitalist body is a force for good. all capitalist bodies are a force for evil. we all know this.

Ok. In that case, as Bahnhof Strasse pointed out, the EU, as a political organisation, hasn't produced a single drop of vaccine. Nor, as an organisation, has it exported any. In fact, it's attempted to obstruct the export of vaccines from it's borders. That's fact too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok. In that case, as Bahnhof Strasse pointed out, the EU, as a political organisation, hasn't produced a single drop of vaccine. Nor, as an organisation, has it exported any. In fact, it's attempted to obstruct the export of vaccines from it's borders. That's fact too

this always happens, you always take the contrary position to that i argue and so often as now it leads you into a cul-de-sac. i care not a whit what the eu has tried and failed to do about preventing the delivery of vaccines. the simple fact is that vaccines have been exported from the territory of eu member states, ie from the eu. we can dispute this till the cows come home but you'll just tie yourself up in greater and greater knots.

 

[The39thStep]

Africans not required

Many Covid vaccine doses donated to African countries are not recognized by EU travel certificate | CNN

The African Union and Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (Africa CDC) have voiced "concern" after it emerged that Europe's digital "green pass" does not recognize a vaccine that was donated to many African countries through the COVAX initiative.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Spymaster]

this always happens, you always take the contrary position to that i argue and so often as now it leads you into a cul-de-sac. i care not a whit what the eu has tried and failed to do about preventing the delivery of vaccines. the simple fact is that vaccines have been exported from the territory of eu member states, ie from the eu. we can dispute this till the cows come home but you'll just tie yourself up in greater and greater knots.

I haven't taken a contrary position. You're just being wilfully obtuse, as is so often your want!

I responded to Yossarian's post which was based on a misunderstanding of the European Commission's relationship with vaccine manufacture and export. That has now been corrected. You knew the answer too so I've simply further clarified it for you.

Thank me later

 

[Pickman's model]

I haven't taken a contrary position. You're just being wilfully obtuse, as is so often your want!

I responded to Yossarian's post which was based on a misunderstanding of the European Commission's relationship with vaccine manufacture and export. That has now been corrected. You knew the answer too so I've simply further clarified it for you.

Thank me later

still waiting for those adoption papers to come through

 

[andysays]

Arguably, the Delta variant was allowed to be imported here because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi by closing the door when the science suggested he should, a decision based on securing a post-Brexit trade deal with India. We’re Europe’s Typhoid Mary right now because of this Brexit-related decision.

I don't think there's even any argument about that, and I've said as much previously.

But those of us who voted Leave are not responsible for every single Brexit related fuck up there has been since 2016.

Arguably, the hardline Remainers in parliament and elsewhere share a great deal of the responsibility for lumbering all of us with a Johnson government

 

[bimble]

Yes. Europe is just a few weeks behind the UK, is all. Also not sure what this has to do with Brexit.

Try harder? If we weren't desperate for a trade deal with India, and if Johnson hadn't been planning to go there to kiss Modi's arse in April, we would, In my opinion, not be in this world beating situation. The gov would have put India on the red list at the beginning of April, which would without doubt have made us fall down the league table of infectedness wouldn't it.
As so many things though not Brexit the idea but brexit as implemented, in real life, with these twats in charge of it.

 

[Spymaster]

Try harder? If we weren't desperate for a trade deal with India, and if Johnson hadn't been planning to go there to kiss Modi's arse in April, we would, In my opinion, not be in this world beating situation. The gov would have put India on the red list at the beginning of April, which would without doubt have made us fall down the league table of infectedness wouldn't it.
As so many things though not Brexit the idea but brexit as implemented, in real life, with these twats in charge of it.

I suspect your post is probably guff but even if it were correct, the mistake made by the UKG in relation to India is now being repeated in spades by the beloved can-do-no-wrong EU in relation to here, by allowing tens of thousands of Brits into Europe in the full knowledge of the UK Delta infection jump. Obviously though, any 3rd wave across Europe will be the fault of the UK allowing the delta variant to enter its borders. Not because the EU member states allowed it to enter theirs. That's only fair and reasonable and should be the position of every right-thinking remoaner

 

[bimble]

good effort. But its not really true is it, in that the Uk is currently doing its best to convince merkel etc to let us in.

UK PM confident on travel for people with two COVID-19 vaccine shots

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Thursday he was confident Britons fully vaccinated against COVID-19 would be able to travel abroad this year.

www.reuters.com

When you type Remoaner do you get a little thrill every time?

 

[Spymaster]

good effort. But its not really true is it, in that the Uk is currently doing its best to convince merkel etc to let us in.

UK PM confident on travel for people with two COVID-19 vaccine shots

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Thursday he was confident Britons fully vaccinated against COVID-19 would be able to travel abroad this year.

www.reuters.com

Ah, ok. So no EU third wave based on Delta infections from the UK apparently Dogsauce

Have you any idea what's going on there at the moment?

You remoaners really do want to have your cake and eat it, don't you?

"Remoaners" is to irritate specific people. Nice 'like' by the way

 

[bimble]

i've never understood what the point is of just having a cake.

 

[Spymaster]

i've never understood what the point is of just having a cake.

Fair point.

 

[Spymaster]

/

 

[Spymaster]

/

 

[bimble]

\

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

i've never understood what the point is of just having a cake.

There is no point, much like saying boo to a goose.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think the logic of some of them is that they wanted the EU to roll the vaccine out first , wait for the bodies to pile up and then blame Brexit

It's a similar sad story in terms of the economy. Job losses/redundancies/capital flight are all seized on with glee to 'prove' that their apocalyptic warnings are all about to come true. Not only does this wrongly assume that all of the decision making by capital can be understood through the use of a single lens, but as a form of politics it's essentially useless. Worse still, it's a part of a really bad look developed by an embittered wing of the professional middle class and their aspirant allies that has been widely clocked: as the Labour Party are currently discovering.

 

[sleaterkinney]

So we're blaming people who voted for Brexit five years ago for the third wave of Covid now?

Some really classy contributions on this thread, as ever.

We were told that the covid response, especially the vaccine was one of the many benefits of brexit.

 

[two sheds]

There is no point, much like saying boo to a goose.

unless you walk towards them flapping your arms, then it's worth saying boo to a goose.

 

[sleaterkinney]

It's a similar sad story in terms of the economy. Job losses/redundancies/capital flight are all seized on with glee to 'prove' that their apocalyptic warnings are all about to come true. Not only does this wrongly assume that all of the decision making by capital can be understood through the use of a single lens, but as a form of politics it's essentially useless. Worse still, it's a part of a really bad look developed by an embittered wing of the professional middle class and their aspirant allies that has been widely clocked: as the Labour Party are currently discovering.

It's about holding the people who lied about brexit to account. Should we all pretend it didn't exist or something?.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It's about holding the people who lied about brexit to account. Should we all pretend it didn't exist or something?.

How is a fantasy about the EU vaccine programme or celebrating people losing their jobs ‘holding people to account’?

 

[sleaterkinney]

How is a fantasy about the EU vaccine programme or celebrating people losing their jobs ‘holding people to account’?

People losing their jobs is a result of brexit, should that be ignored?.
The huge delta spike is because of the UK chasing deals as a result of brexit, should that be ignored?

 

[Yossarian]

"Remoaners want your gran to die from COVID to make Brexit look bad" seems like a level of fantasy even the Daily Express might think twice about.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

People losing their jobs is a result of brexit, should that be ignored?.
The huge delta spike is because of the UK chasing deals as a result of brexit, should that be ignored?

People lose their jobs for a multiplicity of reasons. The contorted attempts to link them to Brexit, normally accompanied by continuity remain headbangers chirping ‘they can’t say they weren’t warned’ is embarrassing shit politics.

As for your point about the delta variant the attempt made to show ‘all roads lead back to Brexit’ is a prime example of what I’m talking about. The underlying assumption being that if only the UK had voted to remain in a neo-liberal trading bloc the ruling class wouldn’t have killed hundreds of thousands due to venality, greed and incompetence. Otherworldly stuff

 

[Cerv]

i see the EU has formally agreed to the Uk's request to again extend the chilled meats to NI grace period thing. What is supposed to have changed by September to make it work then when it wouldn't work now?

is that enough time for manufacturers of these sausages to shift (some) production out of GB to NI or ROI? so they no longer need to be imported. supermarket chillers shelves stocked happily to sufficient quantities and crisis averted.


or the UK government collapses and is replaced by Starmer willing to sign up to a Swiss style agri-food agreement to follow the offending EU standards.

 

[Yossarian]

I think it'll be the case for a long long time to come that people on both sides are going to view everything through the prism of Brexit and treat developments bad or good - many of which are unfolding in exactly the same way in countries in the EU and beyond - as evidence they were correct. Might all come to a head if the Euro final ends up being England vs. Belgium.

 

[The39thStep]

It's a similar sad story in terms of the economy. Job losses/redundancies/capital flight are all seized on with glee to 'prove' that their apocalyptic warnings are all about to come true. Not only does this wrongly assume that all of the decision making by capital can be understood through the use of a single lens, but as a form of politics it's essentially useless. Worse still, it's a part of a really bad look developed by an embittered wing of the professional middle class and their aspirant allies that has been widely clocked: as the Labour Party are currently discovering.

Yes always heartening when the CBI is gleefully quoted. Meanwhile the alleged victims of Brexit , the working classes are told that the pay rises that are necessary to fill vacancies will make prices rise. I’m alright Jake.