The people I feel empathy for are those who just want a normal life and who get literally caught in the uncaring and unfeeling cross-fire of these assholes living out their wannabe shit gangster lifestyles in our city.
Giles..
5 yr old girl & 35 yr old man shot in Stockwell
- Thread starter wemakeyousoundb
- Start date
The people I feel empathy for are those who just want a normal life and who get literally caught in the uncaring and unfeeling cross-fire of these assholes living out their wannabe shit gangster lifestyles in our city.
Giles..
They could try getting a job. Like most people do. Your oversimplification of society into posh rich city fraudsters v violent street criminals is just silly.
What about the, oh, 99.whatever % of people who are neither? Who just accept and live an ordinary life? Who don't decide to "get rich or die trying" even if this means shooting small children in shops?
Giles..
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
because they're people, because innocent people get hurt and killed, because it's tragic that this happens at all
y'know, basic human stuff like that
Lets all be honest, both the left and the right dont really give a fuck.
These poor black kids come from areas that aint ever going to elect a Conservative so are off the radar and the left are so fucked up with 'identity' politics that nobody is going to really step into the breach and say that 'Urban' culture is as negative as fuck.
The real answer is education. Real, proper education which focuses on things such as giving poor kids real marketable skills in the work place. The reality is that there is no point in trying to push poorer kids into higher education as things stand because all the jobs in industrys such as the media or finance or even things like medicine are becoming more and more the preserve of the rich.
But give them the chance to get real qualifications in things like plumbers, electricans, carpenters and so on and they might actually have a chance to make something of their lives.
However its not going to happen because education has just become another political playground in which competing groups of white middle class people wage ideological conflict that has no bearing on how their own kids get educated and prepared for the world of work.
What Brixton needs is a technical school that takes kids in at the age of 11 and lets them out at 18 with City & Guilds qualfications. Which turns them into engineers. Which gives them a chance to maybe buy their own home, go on a nice foreign holiday once a year and turn them into rather tedious and no doubt Daily Mail reading people. Golfers. That sort of thing.
This shooting will be next weeks proverbial fish and chip paper because its not really in anybodys interest in our careerist political elites, from all sides of the divide, to actually give a flying fuck beyond sound bites of the usual stale sounding bullshit.
These poor black kids come from areas that aint ever going to elect a Conservative so are off the radar and the left are so fucked up with 'identity' politics that nobody is going to really step into the breach and say that 'Urban' culture is as negative as fuck.
The real answer is education. Real, proper education which focuses on things such as giving poor kids real marketable skills in the work place. The reality is that there is no point in trying to push poorer kids into higher education as things stand because all the jobs in industrys such as the media or finance or even things like medicine are becoming more and more the preserve of the rich.
But give them the chance to get real qualifications in things like plumbers, electricans, carpenters and so on and they might actually have a chance to make something of their lives.
However its not going to happen because education has just become another political playground in which competing groups of white middle class people wage ideological conflict that has no bearing on how their own kids get educated and prepared for the world of work.
What Brixton needs is a technical school that takes kids in at the age of 11 and lets them out at 18 with City & Guilds qualfications. Which turns them into engineers. Which gives them a chance to maybe buy their own home, go on a nice foreign holiday once a year and turn them into rather tedious and no doubt Daily Mail reading people. Golfers. That sort of thing.
This shooting will be next weeks proverbial fish and chip paper because its not really in anybodys interest in our careerist political elites, from all sides of the divide, to actually give a flying fuck beyond sound bites of the usual stale sounding bullshit.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This is what Eric means by looking at the actual problems:
Income Inequality and Violent Crime. See here on this link
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/publications/research-digest-1-violent-crime-web
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
As is your oversimplification of getting a job at the moment.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I feel zero empathy for you right now
Definitely... an unequal, unfair and divided society with grotesque inequalities breeds violence. And before our eyes, watch all of the problems and despair in our society at the moment magnify under this government - which lets be clear, couldn't give a shit about what happens in the likes of Stockwell, a million miles away from Chelsea.
It's sad to see with this tragedy people running down the area a bit more... nobody would ever know that a lot of people actually quite like living here!
I hope everyone is OK and I obviously hope those responsible are caught... but let's not fall into the trap of thinking that "tough on crime" alone will stop this happening again.
It's sad to see with this tragedy people running down the area a bit more... nobody would ever know that a lot of people actually quite like living here!
I hope everyone is OK and I obviously hope those responsible are caught... but let's not fall into the trap of thinking that "tough on crime" alone will stop this happening again.
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
"Tough on crime" simply makes it more likely to happen again. It's no use criticising these kids for trying to live by an over simplified, vengeful, and violent moral code, by preaching an equally over simplified, vengeful, and violent moral code. That just makes it their gang versus our gang.
Welcome to Urban. And good point well made
Cheers. Been lurking for a while but couldn't keep quiet... didn't help enduring everyone at work talking about what a "shithole" and a "ghetto" Stockwell is... I only just started so I didn't really wanna start an argument with them
Summerbaby
New Member
Giles' comments just goes to show that an expensive education and a name like 'tarquin' or 'Giles' for that matter does not an educated man make. Giles your attitude perfectly exposes everything that is wrong with this country. I have no idea why you would come to an urban forum firstly...you very obviously have no understanding of urban issues. Someone who thinks the way you do probably only lives in kilburn because despite your public school education and lack of melanin you are still unable to afford a property far enough away from the brown people of this world.
Well done Eric for articulately describing in great detail the root causes that lead to this type of scenario and to Mrs Magpie for speaking the uncomfortable truth. Unfortunately, attitudes like Giles' are everywhere, especially in the so called upper echelons of society or ruling classes which base their dealings with ethnic minorities on 'the bell curve' and other white supremacist pieces of literature.
Money can not buy class and public school educations can't buy emotional intelligence or wisdom. Giles, I suggest you move to a country which hasn't colonised the majority of the melanined people populated countries of the world and is therefore not dealing with the consequences of doing so.
Well done Eric for articulately describing in great detail the root causes that lead to this type of scenario and to Mrs Magpie for speaking the uncomfortable truth. Unfortunately, attitudes like Giles' are everywhere, especially in the so called upper echelons of society or ruling classes which base their dealings with ethnic minorities on 'the bell curve' and other white supremacist pieces of literature.
Money can not buy class and public school educations can't buy emotional intelligence or wisdom. Giles, I suggest you move to a country which hasn't colonised the majority of the melanined people populated countries of the world and is therefore not dealing with the consequences of doing so.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
Which causes the bottom to drop out of that market leaving them with non transferable skill set and a bad attitude about the system that didn't give them the chance to shine academically?
[/whitemiddleclassteacher]
There should be academic and technical routes... but there shouldn't be a big divide between the two. Finland has a comprehensive system but there are academic/vocational schools, however they're on an equal standing... So Finland is almost entirely state comprehensives and leads the world in education rankings, but this country cherry picks this "free schools" bollocks, part-privatises education and promotes religious schools :/
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Hi James. Yes it would be a pity if this leads to people running the area down. There is a good mix of people and cultures there.
When the World Cup was on I noticed different flags from around the world on the flats.
Attachments
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
Cheers. Been lurking for a while but couldn't keep quiet... didn't help enduring everyone at work talking about what a "shithole" and a "ghetto" Stockwell is... I only just started so I didn't really wanna start an argument with them
Just refer to it as St Ockwell, a relatively unknown village just south of the Thames.
Personally I prefer living round here to any of the soulless mind numbingly boring suburbs further out. For a real shithole you need somewhere like Suburbiton. At least round here the police make some attempt to catch criminals, they don't simply write off thuggery as being "youthful high spirits".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's become quite famous since a young brazilian was shot there some years ago.
you south londoners make me laugh, with your ludicrous attempts to disguise where you live (st ockwell, st reatham)
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Bell Curve theory is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Somewhat unfair on Giles. I dont agree with him but he has not mentioned race. Gang culture is also found in mainly white areas of the country as well. And has a long historical pedigree ( Glasgow knife gangs for example). Its the use of guns more recently thats made it worse.
Gang culture is socio economic and not dependant on race
Nor has Giles said anything about his education.
Also some of Giles attitudes arent that unusual. My local newsagent didnt see any excuse for using a gun in this way and he is Indian.
It's bizarre how obsessed/paranoid people in London are about location, people will live in Vauxhall or Clapham but rule out a two minute walk into Stockwell... unless a dickhead estate agent fools them into thinking it's "Clapham Border" or something! I don't care though, makes my rent cheaper
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
misery loves company
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's bizarre how obsessed/paranoid people in London are about location, people will live in Vauxhall or Clapham but rule out a two minute walk into Stockwell... unless a dickhead estate agent fools them into thinking it's "Clapham Border" or something! I don't care though, makes my rent cheaper
it's not bizarre - quite understandable, really, having visited stockwell (and streatham). but very amusing nonetheless
it's not bizarre - quite understandable, really, having visited stockwell (and streatham). but very amusing nonetheless
I've never been able to see what's so great about Clapham... expensive, crap transport and pretentious. Vauxhall is alright but other than being more central, I don't really see how it's a much better area than Stockwell... but I guess cos it's central, like elephant the developers are just planning on building something gentrified and upmarket, and to hell with everyone who can't live in a £400k apartment.
Summerbaby
New Member
QUOTE=Gramsci;11641561]Bell Curve theory is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Somewhat unfair on Giles. I dont agree with him but he has not mentioned race. Gang culture is also found in mainly white areas of the country as well. And has a long historical pedigree ( Glasgow knife gangs for example). Its the use of guns more recently thats made it worse.
Gang culture is socio economic and not dependant on race
Nor has Giles said anything about his education.
Also some of Giles attitudes arent that unusual. My local newsagent didnt see any excuse for using a gun in this way and he is Indian.[/QUOTE]
I accept that Giles didn't MENTION race and I also accept that I have made an assumption about his background based on his stance but surely someone who is discerning would accept that some keyboard warriors don't have the guts to mention race. The geo-political agenda doesn't mention race, the socio-political agenda doesn't mention class but this does this mean that the agenda is not class or race based??
I am by no means calling Giles racist, I am merely calling him simplistic in his view towards this situaton and pointing out that he doesn't have the faintest idea of the root causes which culminate in awful incidents like yesterday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Somewhat unfair on Giles. I dont agree with him but he has not mentioned race. Gang culture is also found in mainly white areas of the country as well. And has a long historical pedigree ( Glasgow knife gangs for example). Its the use of guns more recently thats made it worse.
Gang culture is socio economic and not dependant on race
Nor has Giles said anything about his education.
Also some of Giles attitudes arent that unusual. My local newsagent didnt see any excuse for using a gun in this way and he is Indian.[/QUOTE]
I accept that Giles didn't MENTION race and I also accept that I have made an assumption about his background based on his stance but surely someone who is discerning would accept that some keyboard warriors don't have the guts to mention race. The geo-political agenda doesn't mention race, the socio-political agenda doesn't mention class but this does this mean that the agenda is not class or race based??
I am by no means calling Giles racist, I am merely calling him simplistic in his view towards this situaton and pointing out that he doesn't have the faintest idea of the root causes which culminate in awful incidents like yesterday.
Well, closer to four miles really.
ash
Inittogether
As this 'incident' was within yards of my childs school I am not too concerned about the sociology behind the shooting.
Walking to school today I overheard 5 year olds saying 'who was shot'? My daughter told me that a child was shot dead and asked if it was a shot gun or pistol and she is 6 for fucks sake.
I have no regard for the individuals that perpetrated this attempted murder. I also find it very offensive to people who are disavantaged financially or emotionally that people are excusing the idiots using socio-economic factors as an excuse!!
Walking to school today I overheard 5 year olds saying 'who was shot'? My daughter told me that a child was shot dead and asked if it was a shot gun or pistol and she is 6 for fucks sake.
I have no regard for the individuals that perpetrated this attempted murder. I also find it very offensive to people who are disavantaged financially or emotionally that people are excusing the idiots using socio-economic factors as an excuse!!
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Because it could have been any of us here who in live in the area who happened to be in that shop when the shooting happened.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
this is an slightly separate point though i think personal social views on education are what needs to change more than education itself.
there is good vocational training out there it's peaoples desire to go into a particular area that needs top be stimulated and thats difficult
for a start it's ridiculous to think that most 16 year old actually really know what route in life they want to take. sure some will but a lot won't. hell i only really decided on teaching a few years back after getting into it... and i still have second thoughts. your not allowed to vote or drink but you have to decide what route you want to take in life... nuts
and because of this it's often not the individual that makes the choice it's that individuals social group the pearents and the peers
untill sociaty changes how it thinks about education education will have a tough time trying to change sociaty
silverfish
Sprinkling glitter on turds
Either you know the poster Giles or you are just banging out your own unimaginative class enemy stereotype bullshit
Lets be clear about this. teenage boys have shot dead, a young girl and a bloke.
You can ring your fucking hands as much as you like, but not everyone in the community is banging round on mountain bikes shooting people. The vast majority of the communities, as pointed out on the thread are great, balanced, multicultural, law abiding and getting on with life what ever their socio-economic/ethnic status even though they have had the same environmental exposure as the murderers you are excusing
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