Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Or perhaps you can'tEh?
Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022
- Thread starter GarveyLives
- Start date
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I don't understand the question. What do his hands have to do with anything?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Jesus Mary and Joseph
If he can't keep his hands in sight they think he's reaching for a gun and shoot him. It's not neurosurgery or rocket science.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Jesus Mary and Joseph
If he can't keep his hands in sight they think he's reaching for a gun and shoot him.
No they don't.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Oh they do.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Cobblers. They'd shoot him if they saw a gun in his hands and he refused to put it down.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
See eg Anthony grainger
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
another example of what you claim wouldn't happen er happening
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Eh? What's this nonsense?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Grainger was unarmed when he was shot and killed. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Anthony Grainger shooting: Judge criticises Greater Manchester Police
A judge rules the 2012 shooting of unarmed Anthony Grainger was legally justified but criticises police.
www.bbc.com
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If kaba had attempted to exit the car his hands would have been out of sight of at least one cop as he tried to open the door -> shot
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Can you explain to me how you would get out of a car without reaching down to either open the window or release the door, without your hands being out of sight of a cop in mb's position?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There is no obvious way ck's stop could have ended without him bring shot.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
No. The prosecution rests, no further questions
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I disagree. Him reaching down to open the door isn't guaranteed to get him shot at all. You've just found one example of it happening. I'm sure there are many examples of people not being shot in similar situations.
This is a weird strawman you seem to have built.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I can't be arsed to reply to him directly anymore. But it's a bloody weird argument considering that most of the times armed police stop a car no one gets shot. And if true it would mean that everytime armed police did stop someone in a car they expect to kill someone.
It's another case of someone constructing some made up fantasy version of the police to argue againt. The article gives some real and valid criticism of the police, and I suspect if I was to see the evidance I'd have a lot more criticisms. But that is ignored in favour of some fantasy where the police are deliberately setting out with the intention of killing people.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yes, it's a bonkers argument. As you say there are tens of thousands of armed officer deployments (as detailed up the thread somewhere) where nobody gets shot. If armed police officers were in the habit of routinely shooting everyone whose hands they lost sight of momentarily, I strongly suspect that the number of unarmed people shot would be astronomical.
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emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Something else I don't fully get is the focus on lack of a gun being found. Expect in cases where the police are claiming they saw one and then there isn't one I don't get how it changes much. It matters as part of the bigger picture regarding possible faliures of intelligence, but not so much for the shooting itself.
The police belive there might be gun, any actions they take don't retroactively become right or wrong depending on if they guessed right or not.
If there had been a gun found in Kaba's car (maybe hidden someone he didn't have easy access to) I think his death would not have got the attention it did, but it wouldn't have changed anything about the shooting.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's jermaine baker too. Yet I see no counter example from you. Kaba's car had been linked to a firearms incident. From my perspective there's no way it would end up with him leaving the car alive. I asked you a simple question, how would you get out of a car without either opening the window (hand out of sight) or releasing the door (hand out of sight). You can't tell me because there's no way to do it. And it's only by keeping hands in sight that you can be sure he wouldn't be shot by a cop thinking he was reaching for a weapon. Give me an example of a hard stop when hands were out of sight and I'll hold my own up and say OK. But at the moment you're posting supposition and hopes against examples of very real deaths.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And the miserable emanyton,his support for you isn't worth a weasel's fart
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Well that at lest made me laugh.
So I'll break my own rule and reply to you once.
Frankly you have oftern been a bit of an annoying prick, but you are least used to seem sensible and generaly okay. But what the fuck happend to you?
Do you realy not see how what you are saying doesn't make sense and doesn't stand up to even the smallest amount of scrutiny or reflection on how things actual happen in the real world?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
This is all just based on your massive reckon that he would undoubtedly have been shot if he reached for the handle, which is beyond ridiculous. My only contention is that it's very far from a foregone conclusion based on the miniscule number of people shot compared to the number of armed officer deployments.
Then there's the fact that it's not what happened anyway!
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I know police are oftern not the brightest bulbs, but I think even they can grasp that if they order someone to get out of a car they will need to move their hands and open the door.This is all just based on your massive reckon that he would undoubtedly have been shot if he reached for the handle, which is beyond ridiculous. My only contention is that it's very far from a foregone conclusion based on the miniscule number of people shot compared to the number of armed officer deployments.
Then there's the fact that it's not what happened anyway!
They could even give specific instructions "slowly open the door with your right hand then exit the vehicle"
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If you won't defend your assertion then I can only conclude you no longer have faith in it.This is all just based on your massive reckon that he would undoubtedly have been shot if he reached for the handle, which is beyond ridiculous. My only contention is that it's very far from a foregone conclusion based on the miniscule number of people shot compared to the number of armed officer deployments.
Then there's the fact that it's not what happened anyway!
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I'd be extremely surprised if that's not precisely what happens in the vast majority of similar situations. Pickmans is chatting through his hat.
Can you imagine how many dead drivers there'd be if they shot everyone who they told to 'get out of the car'?
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