Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022

[emanymton]

I'd be extremely surprised if that's not precisely what happens in the vast majority of similar situations. Pickmans is chatting through his hat.

Can you imagine how many dead drivers there'd be if they shot everyone who they told to 'get out of the car'?

A wholesale slaughter of drunk drivers in the US where you have to assume every vehicle might have a gun in it.

 

[Spymaster]

A wholesale slaughter of drunk drivers in the US where you have to assume every vehicle might have a gun in it.

Well quite.

If Pickman's odd theory was correct EVERYONE who has ever been 'hard stopped' by the police and attempted to comply with their order to get out of the car would have been shot!

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd be extremely surprised if that's not precisely what happens in the vast majority of similar situations. Pickmans is chatting through his hat.

Can you imagine how many dead drivers there'd be if they shot everyone who they told to 'get out of the car'?

We're not talking about everyone, we're talking about people the police have hard stopped when there's been a firearms tag on a car. You've said yer man should just have got out the car. I submit that in such cases the cops will want to see hands throughout the exit. People have been killed over this sort of thing, it's not a jolly jape as you're making out.

 

[Spymaster]

I submit that in such cases the cops will want to see hands throughout the exit.

And how exactly would they expect this to be achieved?

You seem to have been arguing that it's impossible.

 

[Pickman's model]

And how exactly would they expect this to be achieved?

You seem to have been arguing that it's impossible.

Yeh it is. You've not a clue or you'd have posted it by now

 

[Spymaster]

Yeh it is.

I submit you're posting bollocks!

 

[edcraw]

Soooo please Spy's back from his ban. Really adds to the discussion...

 

[Spymaster]

Soooo please Spy's back from his ban. Really adds to the discussion...

The worst bit of the ban was missing you, Ed.

 

[SLBDWELL]

We're not talking about everyone, we're talking about people the police have hard stopped when there's been a firearms tag on a car. You've said yer man should just have got out the car. I submit that in such cases the cops will want to see hands throughout the exit. People have been killed over this sort of thing, it's not a jolly jape as you're making out.

I can see what you are getting at; when you say sees the hands through the exit i assume you are talking about some USA police depts were they ask for both hands to be leaned out of the window. In this case was not possible as it appears the window was closed. however hard stop polices, procedures and guidance were not on trial. An officer who made a millisecond decision to shoot was ( other officers stated to the court they were seconds behind opening fire themselves). According to the guardian dated 31st -10-24 ‘ the trial concerned just 13 seconds of activity’ . When Asked in court why he pulled the trigger, the officer said: “I had a genuine belief that there was an imminent threat to life, I thought one or more of my colleagues was about to die’. The jury after listened to all the evidence agreed.Infact the guardian also stated ‘ It was the first British police shooting that led to a murder trial caught on video, with a series of cameras worn by police and in their cars providing footage relied on by the prosecution’.

 

[PR1Berske]

Soooo please Spy's back from his ban. Really adds to the discussion...

Reminded of this exchange:

 

[krtek a houby]

Reminded of this exchange:

View attachment 450905

The Bill?

 

[PR1Berske]

The Bill?

"The Ice Storm"

 

[xenon]

It's almost as if you can't go driving around in a car linked to a firearms offence and when inevitably stopped by armed Police, attempt forceably driving your way out without having a bad day.

 

[Spymaster]

well there is a difference between an internal enquiry ( i would be surprised that it has not been/being carried out; clearly a question to the Mayor to seek the answer from the comissioner) which would look at the operation as a whole and an individual facing 'gross misconduct'.

I think it's inconceivable that there wouldn't have been some kind of internal enquiry. One of their blokes killed someone. It's hardly going to be a case of 'all back to work and business as usual' the next day is it? Also, the fact that the IOPC are basing their decision to review whether Blake should face a misconduct charge on both the acquittal and representations from the Metropolitan Police, suggests that the Met have had an enquiry to be able to make such representations.

 

[SLBDWELL]

I think it's inconceivable that there wouldn't have been some kind of internal enquiry. One of their blokes killed someone. It's hardly going to be a case of 'all back to work and business as usual' the next day is it? Also, the fact that the IOPC are basing their decision to review whether Blake should face a misconduct charge on both the acquittal and representations from the Metropolitan Police, suggests that the Met have had an enquiry to be able to make such representations.

i 110% agree with you ; even after a hard stop with no discharge of a firearms a debrief of such i think would take place.

 

[edcraw]

Yeah, you'd think an internal review would take place but then you remember this is the Met...

Police admit they should have reviewed tactic used in Mark Duggan case

Independent Police Complaints Commission recommended the review of 'hard stop' in 2005, saying it was a 'high risk option'

www.theguardian.com

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, you'd think an internal review would take place but then you remember this is the Met...

Police admit they should have reviewed tactic used in Mark Duggan case

Independent Police Complaints Commission recommended the review of 'hard stop' in 2005, saying it was a 'high risk option'

www.theguardian.com

You realize that 'reviewing the tactic' 20 years ago doesn't mean they wouldn't still have used it on Kaba 2 years ago, right?

Or that they haven’t reviewed it in the 15 years since the article you quote was written?

Speaking to the BBC for its Panorama programme, to be aired on Monday, the Met's assistant commissioner, Mark Rowley, defended the force's failure to follow the recommendation.


He said: "Perhaps some formal paperwork and formal thinking should have been done at the time – it wasn't, but we're constantly looking at the tactic.

"If anyone has a better idea on how you confront armed criminals in vehicles with a view to arresting them safely and seizing their weapons then we're up for better ideas. People say review, people don't come forward with better ideas."

You should give them a shout, Ed.

 

[edcraw]

You realize that 'reviewing the tactic' 20 years ago doesn't mean they wouldn't still have used it on Kaba 2 years ago, right?

Or that they haven’t reviewed it in the 15 years since the article you quote was written?



You should give them a shout, Ed.

Just pointing out that presuming they have reviewed it despite evidence that that's not how they operate is a little strange.

When's your next ban mate?

 

[Spymaster]

Just pointing out that presuming they have reviewed it despite evidence that that's not how they operate is a little strange.

There's been no such presumption, although it's pretty likely. The presumption was that Blake's shooting of Kaba would have been the subject of an internal investigation by the Met. Not the use of the hard stop tactic generally.

When's your next ban mate?

How long's a piece of string, Ed?

I believe there's a book on it somewhere though.