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1945: The Savage Peace: very very disturbing television

treelover

Well-Known Member
1945: The Savage Peace, review: 'shocking'
Peter Molloy’s thought-provoking documentary about postwar reprisals against Germans in Eastern Europe was most effective in highlighting the scale and savagery of the events


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ws/11624618/1945-The-Savage-Peace-review.html

Anyone see it?, BBC 2 last night(not sure if on Iplayer)it was primarily about how the defeated Ost German's/Ethnic Germans and the left overs of the Wermacht were treated by the people and soldiers of the Eastern European countries and ultimately the great powers..

but to do so, they showed scenes I think have rarely been shown on UK television: film of lorries deliberately speeding along crushing bodies, beautiful young women with their faces a pulped mass or missing half a one, films of german citizens being battered to death by mobs, close ups of a man under a hail of blows from someone wielding a big tin pot, the children who had to bury their mother themselves in the woods, mass executions, especially in Czhechoslovakia and Poland, The brutality showered down on these people was visceral and part of a wider strategy to deport millions of Ost Germans from the East, many died on these train journeys and death marches. all this was quietly condoned by the leaders who had met at Yalta

Of course, this is exactly what the master race had meted out to many many milllions, on a industrial scale, they reaped what they sowed would be the argument, but it was harrowing viewing

Interestingly they never mentioned the deaths in the west , including the thousands of German POW's left to die in the open, documented in the book, 'Other Losses'.*

*though these claims have been challenged.

Update, it was the Potsdam Treaty which finalised the expulsions, not Yalta, though that contributed.
 
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Missed it, but most people are completely ignorant of the 'evacuation' of Germans from east of the Elbe. It was the biggest ethnic cleansing in history.
 
I saw it. It was difficult viewing but I stuck with it. Inhumanity leads to further inhumanity.
 
Not sure if I want yo watch it now...if you have any time, do some background reading on Koenigsberg around the start of 1945- its stomach turning stuff
 
I watched it. It was certainly harrowing and one couldn't not feel for anyone innocent caught up in it. Like the German heritage guy who was an anti-Nazi but got thrown in the internment camp previously used by the Nazis.
The program mentioned the number of executions/killings but how many were really Nazis or collaborators? I suppose it was inevitable that Resistance partisans who had lost family, friends and comrades would seek retribution.

The German anti-Nazi said that all male Germans over 15 years old were summoned to the football stadium in his town. 8000 turned up, they were ordered to remove their shirts, and checked for the blood group tattoo on the upper arm which identified them as members of the SS.
22 were found who were then beaten to death by the partisan fighters with clubs and iron bars, and the other Germans were made to march past them and look at the bodies. Is that understandable? Perhaps it was after what the SS had done.

I remember a toolmaker I knew whose parents had been members of the Communist Party, during the war, telling me that his father had told him that the CP had plans to kill known fascist sympathisers if the Germans had invaded Britain.
Another guy who I worked with who was from Italy told me that after the Nazis were defeated there, any German soldier who was caught was killed. He said his uncle had paraded round the streets with a decapitated German soldier's head on a pole.
Fascism isn't pleasant. War isn't either.
 
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I

I remember a toolmaker I knew whose parents had been members of the Communist Party, during the war, telling me that his father had told him that the CP had plans to kill known fascist sympathisers if the Germans had invaded Britain.
Another guy who I worked with who was from Italy told me that after the Nazis were defeated there, any German soldier who was caught was killed. He said his uncle had paraded round the streets with a decapitated German soldier's head on a pole.
Fascism isn't pleasant. War isn't either.

Well they would have to work fast this lot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units had lists as well. One of the reason they were kept secret for so long.
Start a genocidal war and lose the results are going to be bad and no one will care.
 
Well they would have to work fast this lot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units had lists as well. One of the reason they were kept secret for so long.
Start a genocidal war and lose the results are going to be bad and no one will care.
seen a docu on these. The real, secret, dads army. Enthusing over their .22 sniper rifles ('the most beautiful weapon I ever used) and talking about plans to kill the vicar and burn the parish records (so they couldn't trace jews through the parish records)
 
And although it's not widely reported, Allied troops didn't exactly observe the Geneva Convention with captured SS troops. They were often shot immediately, not taken as POWs, though ordinary Abwehr German Army soldiers would be treated better.
 
Very good documentary indeed - and full of stunning statistics. Astonishing how little it's talked about that a quarter of all German kids (as of 1945) had lost one parent, or both; that such a massive proportion of Germans living in Germany today are from families driven out of lands further east. Everyone should see it. Is this sort of thing just not talked about in Germany because of shame or humiliation or letting it all lie, or what? (tho i know of course that old nazis and nazi sympathisers still wax lyrical about it, so maybe discussion of it is just too tainted by that.) But surely all this needs to be understood to make today's EU work better or at all, too...

I think the images were indeed shocking and very very explicit, but not so much more so than much of the images which are already (sadly) a bit blunted by repetition, of Nazi camps and executions. It's (if you'll excuse the expression) the shock of the new- this was archive not often seen, whoever dug it all out did a fine job - and so much of it in colour, as well, which makes it feel even more immediate.

btw, is this a series or was it a one-off? because if we're talking about 'savage peace', another thing which doesn't get mentioned nearly often enough in simplistic Good Guys Won narratives of WWII is that only moments after VE Day, France was getting busy massacring pro-independence Algerians in Setif, god knows what the Brits were doing in the colonies, etc. For a lot of peopleWW2 barely ended before the era of independence wars began, and in those wars the 'civilised democratic west' wasn't / didn't act like it was anything of the kind.
 
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The Ost German movement seems to be gaining momentum, like in Hungary where they are now attempting to claim back land.
 
The Ost German movement seems to be gaining momentum, like in Hungary where they are now attempting to claim back land.

Germans borders are fixed now; it renounced any claims on historic territories it lost as part of the settlement that allowed reunification. The vast majority of Germans have no interest in revanchism.

Very different to Hungary where there is still a great deal of popular anger about the 'Trianon betrayal'.
 
jesus that was dark

for me the old man crying about the children being given the treatment, and the other old folks breaking up over other horrors was as harsh as the hangings. Theres things that generation seriously decline to discuss ennit.
 
Not sure if I want yo watch it now...if you have any time, do some background reading on Koenigsberg around the start of 1945- its stomach turning stuff

My mum was in Koenigsberg in late 1944/early 1945 evacuated from Berlin; travelled to the Czechoslovakia by train, walked to Berlin. I know very little of the details.
 
Thanks for the heads up, its not something I'd considered before, but I'll definitely give it a watch.
 
Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/067091746X?*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Apparently there is a book which covers the whole of the continent, looks grim reading. Though U.K only really had austerity and smog.

reading about it one realises we, Europeans, in many ways weren't that far away from Somalia or Darfur.
Also - http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...e-second-world-war-by-rm-douglas-8076666.html

Germans borders are fixed now; it renounced any claims on historic territories it lost as part of the settlement that allowed reunification. The vast majority of Germans have no interest in revanchism.

Very different to Hungary where there is still a great deal of popular anger about the 'Trianon betrayal'.

Not just popular anger. The EU flag has been taken down from the Hungarian parliament and replaced with one from lands given to Romania at Trianon.
 
Germans borders are fixed now; it renounced any claims on historic territories it lost as part of the settlement that allowed reunification. The vast majority of Germans have no interest in revanchism.

Very different to Hungary where there is still a great deal of popular anger about the 'Trianon betrayal'.

As a Polish acquaintance said to me about 10 years ago "at the rate Germans are buying up summer homes in Poland, they'll have re-occupied us through economic warfare within 30 years!". Obviously, he was exaggerating, but I kind of saw the point.
 
As a Polish acquaintance said to me about 10 years ago "at the rate Germans are buying up summer homes in Poland, they'll have re-occupied us through economic warfare within 30 years!". Obviously, he was exaggerating, but I kind of saw the point.
I transferred an office from Germany to Krakow and had an angry, sobbing woman yell at me that the polish had taken get parent's home and now they were taking hers too*

* ftr not true, she was redeployed under the very strict German protections law....
 
I'll give this a watch.

Grandad served in Germany clearing up for a couple of years after the war, he tried never to talk about it but he said he saw some truly harrowing things and some truly brave things.

He detested the war and refused his medals.
 
I'll give this a watch.

Grandad served in Germany clearing up for a couple of years after the war, he tried never to talk about it but he said he saw some truly harrowing things and some truly brave things.

He detested the war and refused his medals.

Do you mean post war
 
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