The kulaks are revolting - does Urban back big farmer?

[rubbershoes]

Must admit I don't know the answer to this but if you live in a property that you inherit, do you have to pay inheritence tax? If not, the comparison with farmers situations is somewhat spurious.

The living in it exclusion is in relation to capital gains tax not inheritance tax.

Inheritance tax depends on the size of the estate. Living in the property is irrelevant

 

[ska invita]

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There are ways around inheritance tax that are not that hard to pull off. If you are very unlucky you may get stung, but if you really don't want to pay you put your assets in to a business and put your kids or whoever will be the beneficiaries of your estate on the board, as you get more frail you bail out of the business and make them the CEO/owner. The assets contained within it are then theirs. Clearly when they take them out they make get stung for capital gains tax, there's ways around that too; one of my customers inherited a business from his dad who died quite young (64), he sold it for £23m and fucked off to Monaco for 6 years. The cost of the flat in Monaco is immaterial, as when you finish the 6 years in your gilded jail you sell it for the same amount you bought it for. And you don't need to sit in Monaco the whole time, just not spend too much time in the UK...

I'm sure this advice will be gleefully taken up by many, many urbs...

 

[CNT36]

If you are very unlucky you may get stung, but if you really don't want to pay you put your assets in to a business and put your kids or whoever will be the beneficiaries of your estate on the board, as you get more frail you bail out of the business and make them the CEO/owner.

I think this may have changed in the budget as well.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I think this may have changed in the budget as well.

Well that'll be the £200 I was leaving my kids fucked then.

 

[redsquirrel]

Novara doing some reporting & interviewing on it. She gets some racist and personal abuse on the clip as well.

Ash Sarkar Spoke to Farmers FURIOUS at Labour’s New Tax Laws | Novara Media

Is this Rachel Reeves' biggest mistake yet?

novaramedia.com

Quite an interesting piece that - on a variety of levels. Cheers LDC

 

[AverageJoe]

Honestly, the whole thing's a mess. Focusing on fair prices for farmers and consumers seems more sensible than throwing people in gulags.

Off topic, but that's some top quality lurking there thebutty . Four posts in 14 years shows a strength of restraint that I don't have

Top work!

 

[brogdale]

Nonsense. The decision to cut the Winter Fuel Allowance was a politcal choice not a necessary measure to 'fill the black hole' etc etc.

I note the Government has now admitted its decision will push an additional 100,000 pensioners into poverty just as temperatures hit -5.

That may be electorally and fiscally naive, but I think "nonsense" is a little harsh, tbh.

At heart we are looking at aspects of the neoliberal state consolidating to effect the regressive transfer of wealth from unearned to earned, the ownership of economic activity from public to private and state funding from tax to debt. One of the key neoliberal objectives is to remove tax burden from capital and, if the pensioners have to freeze in poverty, that is an outcome that the neoliberal consolidator state accepts. So, in a real sense, Rebecca Riot was not talking nonsense.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Meanwhile, this from the right to roam campaign:

 

[SpookyFrank]

There are ways around inheritance tax that are not that hard to pull off. If you are very unlucky you may get stung, but if you really don't want to pay you put your assets in to a business and put your kids or whoever will be the beneficiaries of your estate on the board, as you get more frail you bail out of the business and make them the CEO/owner. The assets contained within it are then theirs. Clearly when they take them out they make get stung for capital gains tax, there's ways around that too; one of my customers inherited a business from his dad who died quite young (64), he sold it for £23m and fucked off to Monaco for 6 years. The cost of the flat in Monaco is immaterial, as when you finish the 6 years in your gilded jail you sell it for the same amount you bought it for. And you don't need to sit in Monaco the whole time, just not spend too much time in the UK...

I'm sure this advice will be gleefully taken up by many, many urbs...

Or, just pay your fucking taxes.

 

[brogdale]

Novara doing some reporting & interviewing on it. She gets some racist and personal abuse on the clip as well.

Ash Sarkar Spoke to Farmers FURIOUS at Labour’s New Tax Laws | Novara Media

Is this Rachel Reeves' biggest mistake yet?

novaramedia.com

Good piece. I wasn't surprised to see many of the interviewees pleading cash poverty, "no money in the bank", claiming almost non-existent wages and seeing no prospect of accumulating any wealth because that's what farm owners always say. What was more interesting was to see how they appeared themselves to be surprised by their own asset holdings, and seemingly certain that the inter-generational transfer of those assets should attract no IHT.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Just reading about a poor local farming lad protesting whose family farm makes only 3,000 quid a year after tax….

Cornwall farmer says Inheritance Tax changes are 'kick in the teeth'

'I stand to lose everything so I will fight until I've lost everything'

www.cornwalllive.com

One quick sweep of his Facebook page shows his family farm includes 260 acres, four properties the family rents out, and he appears to spend more time skiiing/exotic holidaying and flying first class than the average Cumbrian hill farmer

His 90 year old grand parents own the lot which indicates this lads problem is a inter-generational estate planning issue rather than an unfair socialist tax opportunity

Tax them till they squeal

He probably forgot to mention that the 3 grand profit is only after he's paid himself a 50K wage.

 

[brogdale]

Anyway...farmers; what a bunch of cunts.

 

[Ax^]

View attachment 451793

do hope at least one of the farmers asked this cunt about the benefits of Brexit again..

 

[Cerv]

the farmers ain't all bad. they told Farage to jog on.

Nigel Farage excluded from farmer rally speakers amid fears over Brexit role

Organisers were concerned Reform leader’s presence would be divisive and he would overshadow event

www.theguardian.com

 

[VivaE]

I'm just happy that 66.1% (and counting) of Urban members want to send the loathsome Clarkson and Farage to the gulags.

Nothing to do with farmers, farming or ITR, just something that seems to be on so many people's general wishlist.

 

[CNT36]

I feel a little bit sorry for Clarkson. He's an analogue cunt of the old order. These new digital shitheads are leaving him for dust. He just cannot compete.

 

[Ax^]

would not fell to sorry for him he is sitting on the best part of 50 million
the mouthy gobshite

 

[teqniq]

Interesting thread:

Thread by @TomABacon on Thread Reader App

@TomABacon: So, I've just spent a bit of time looking into the debate on IHT and farming. I... got a shock. First, a note: I have a friend who runs a family farm. In his view, the...

threadreaderapp.com

 

[rubbershoes]

He probably forgot to mention that the 3 grand profit is only after he's paid himself a 50K wage.

And they don't have to pay rent/mortgage .

 

[Gromit]

My problem with the government plans is that they’ve done the usual. Picked an arbitrary number that will require the government to keep changing. But they won’t change it and so eventually it will affect those it was never intended to affect. Every single farmer.

Make it ‘30 times the average salary’. When the average salary changes the amount changes automatically.

 

[AnnaKarpik]

I haven't had time yet to read the whole thread so apols if I am repeating but the one thing missing from the huffing and puffing that I can see is that an estate is valued at its net value. You start with the value of land and farm buildings, deduct any loans secured on that land and those buildings and apply agricultural property relief to that. Then you value the rest of the business in the same way (anything you haven't applied APR to) and apply business relief to that, finally personal stuff including the house in the same way and apply the personal reliefs available on that. It'll be a wonder if anyone pays IHT on farms.

 

[brogdale]

My problem with the government plans is that they’ve done the usual. Picked an arbitrary number that will require the government to keep changing. But they won’t change it and so eventually it will affect those it was never intended to affect. Every single farmer.

Make it ‘30 times the average salary’. When the average salary changes the amount changes automatically.

My problem with the arbitrary number in the Government's proposal is that it discriminates in favour of one section of the boss class offering tax breaks no available to anyone else.

 

[ddraig]

A Facebook friend short and sweet

"We put food on your table."

"Well, we teach your kids, look after you when you're sick, clean your streets, empty your bins, deliver your shopping and your mail and care for your parents. We pay our fair share. Why shouldn't you?"

 

[burtabraham]

A Facebook friend short and sweet

"We put food on your table."

"Well, we teach your kids, look after you when you're sick, clean your streets, empty your bins, deliver your shopping and your mail and care for your parents. We pay our fair share. Why shouldn't you?"

The problem here is that people are looking at the issue through the lense of fairness or morality. I couldn't give a damn even if every farmer was an obnoxious, top-hat wearing toff. The fact is that the country's food supply is an issue of national security. Absolutely every benefit and privilege should be granted to those that keep that supply up and running. To hell with fairness.

 

[Pickman's model]

The problem here is that people are looking at the issue through the lense of fairness or morality. I couldn't give a damn even if every farmer was an obnoxious, top-hat wearing toff. The fact is that the country's food supply is an issue of national security. Absolutely every benefit and privilege should be granted to those that keep that supply up and running. To hell with fairness.

if food is a national security issue then the government should look at the things which have affected it over the last 8 years, which prevent the free flow of food into the country

 

[burtabraham]

if food is a national security issue then the government should look at the things which have affected it over the last 8 years, which prevent the free flow of food into the country

Yes and no. In the short term it is true that making the importation of food as easy as possible is a good thing for prices, etc. Ultimately though we need to be as self sufficient as possible in case of disruptions to supply chains.

If anything the pandemic showed us it is that we simply can't rely on the global system always being there. When we consider that the world is getting more dangerous by the year, it would be wise of us to foster as strong a local agricultural sector as possible.

 

[CNT36]

The problem here is that people are looking at the issue through the lense of fairness or morality. I couldn't give a damn even if every farmer was an obnoxious, top-hat wearing toff. The fact is that the country's food supply is an issue of national security. Absolutely every benefit and privilege should be granted to those that keep that supply up and running. To hell with fairness.

Should anything be done about the inheritance tax dodgers, developers and other wankstains taking thousands of hectares out of agricultural use each year?

 

[brogdale]

The problem here is that people are looking at the issue through the lense of fairness or morality. I couldn't give a damn even if every farmer was an obnoxious, top-hat wearing toff. The fact is that the country's food supply is an issue of national security. Absolutely every benefit and privilege should be granted to those that keep that supply up and running. To hell with fairness.

This is, of course, arrant nonsense. Any state, or supra state, intent on bolstering food security would implement some dedicated programme of incentives such as the EU's CAP. Our state has withdrawn from such a programme to replace intensification with subsidies for de-intensification. Manipulating personal fiscal allowances at the margin is massively insignificant to any question of national food security. In reality the main issues of food security that actually matter occur at the level of household budgets where increasing numbers of families cannot afford the food they need. But neither farmers nor the state care about that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes and no. In the short term it is true that making the importation of food as easy as possible is a good thing for prices, etc. Ultimately though we need to be as self sufficient as possible in case of disruptions to supply chains.

If anything the pandemic showed us it is that we simply can't rely on the global system always being there. When we consider that the world is getting more dangerous by the year, it would be wise of us to foster as strong a local agricultural sector as possible.

are you sure the current farmers are the best people to do that?