butchersapron
Bring back hanging
a) would it? b) so what? To a labour hack like you this might be important, don't assume the same for everyone.
Yes or No -AV referendum May 2011
- Thread starter articul8
- Start date
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Incidentally, fucking hell
That's shocking. The reason they dont have decent equipment has nothing to do with the referendum and everything to do with politicians who dont give a shit about the people they send to kill and die in dubious wars. They must think we're thick as fuck.
I'm more anti-AV than ever after hearing how it will make MPs need 50% of their constituents' support.
It doesn't of course, it requires that 50% of people voting hate someone else more, but of course it will give them the moral authority to claim that they represent the majority of their constituency, the cunts.
Not to mention that the only comparable country with AV, Australia, has a far greater proportion of safe seats than Britain, suggesting that AV does exactly the opposite of what articul8 claims it will do.
It doesn't of course, it requires that 50% of people voting hate someone else more, but of course it will give them the moral authority to claim that they represent the majority of their constituency, the cunts.
Not to mention that the only comparable country with AV, Australia, has a far greater proportion of safe seats than Britain, suggesting that AV does exactly the opposite of what articul8 claims it will do.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The Av vote admitted that today - they had 10 great reasons to vote lib-dem/AV - one of them was that it means extremists never win. It funnels them all into the centre - exactly against what articul8 has argued on here. One of the main drivers behind this campaign.
I want extremists to win.
I want extremists to win.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Maybe we could have an anti-AV vote and i don't want AV to win vote as 2nd pref - we should have two votes because our one isn't good enough unless it wins. We want two. Signed, the people who know.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
the simple act of listening to clegg try and justify why AV might be a good thing is enough to make me want to destroy the whole concept (and rip down the artifice of democratic control more generally)
does that make me an extremist?
does that make me an extremist?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What is is about the m/c that makes them think they're entitled to two votes?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Kabbes isn't here, but yet, if only they could get together and work out how to fuck us up. Together.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Frangipane?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
People really shouldn't vote against AV on the basis that it may benefit the LDs or that it will piss them off.
The equally vapid but counterbalancing argument is that voting for AV will piss off the tories.
The equally vapid but counterbalancing argument is that voting for AV will piss off the tories.
binka
!!!!!!!!!
can you supply us with a list of acceptable reasons we can use for voting no?
currently one of my reasons is i know someone from uni who is involved in the yes campaign via 'unlock democracy'. awful woman.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
You're a Green right? What do you think about the fact that AV could well make it harder for the Greens to win seats? Greens won Brighton Pavilion with just over 30% of the vote in what is essentially a three way marginal. AV would put up a further barrier as they will now need to get a sizeable chunk of 2nd preferences as well. And whilst it's hard to predict how people will use their 2nd/3rd/4th preferences it seems fairly likely that these voters will vote for the established parties as these are probably votes people care less about and things like name recognition become more important. I know the benefits for smaller parties are that people won't be as worried about wasting their vote but surely that issue fades when the Greens get a foothold anyway.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Not equally vapid as hurting the Tories directly will not hurt the coalition. Have another go. More vapid, incorrect and not counterbalancing at all.
Any content behind you finger wagging first paragraph? There's pretty clear arguments being offered as to why voting no precisely to hurt the lib-dems is a sound course of action. What do you have?
Voley
🐀
I only cottoned on to this for the first time yesterday, too. Useless fucking idea.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Why do you think that the Green party in England/Wales is campaigning for a *Yes* vote to AV?
Greens would have won Brighton Pavillion anyway under AV (according to the British Election Survey modelling of the 2010 election) - that they did so under FPTP was pretty much a freak result, as most Greens openly admit.
AV would empower every voter to vote Green as their 1st preference rather than the current situation where their vote gets massive squeezed. OK this won't directly translate into more seats in Westminster. But it will allow for more effective targeting for local elections, and the removal of FPTP will further keep up momentum for PR in the Lords.
A no vote will not do the Greens any favours at all.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
No there aren't. Hurting the Lib Dems in ways which make it harder to kick the Tories out of government is really fucking stupid. The idea that it will plunge the entire coalition into deadlock over the cuts is total wish-fufilment without any basis in what will actually happen as a consequence of a No vote. Clegg won't particularly care and the LD noises-off won't do anything substantial to destabilise the coalition's agenda.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Jesus. Work for socialism by lobbying the Lords. Why hasn't your brain crawled out of your nose in order to get away from your ideas yet?
Combustible
Well-Known Member
It is entirely possible that the GP are wrong to do so. If you read the report they admit that they believe that the Greens would have won Brighton Pavilion under AV but there is not strong evidence for this from the results of simulations. From the report, pg 13
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Can you imagine the GP discussion where they agreed to do this? "Let's all campaign for AV. OK, well it may not actually help us but, what harm can it do? Jumping into bed with the Lib dems, what harm can it do?"
This whole pro vs anti AV nonsense is just pointless arguing over a pointless system that is only interesting to the political elites and their faithful servants. If I lived in the UK I'd probably abstain or vote no, just to piss off the idiots who think that electoral reform is actually going to deliver some kind of progress.
This whole pro vs anti AV nonsense is just pointless arguing over a pointless system that is only interesting to the political elites and their faithful servants. If I lived in the UK I'd probably abstain or vote no, just to piss off the idiots who think that electoral reform is actually going to deliver some kind of progress.
I didn't think the Greens are campaigning for a yes vote, I know Caroline Lucas is in favour, but I thought once their amendment to allow a multiple choice referendum had been defeated they chose not to take a line, and allow free choice like Labour?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Check out derek greens scathing view of av
I don't know how to vote or if I even will. Here's how I see it -
1. AV makes hung parliaments more likely. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
2. AV helps Labour the most. Not sure if that's a good thing either.
3. AV makes it harder for small parties like the Greens. That's a bad thing.
4. AV in the UK would turn it from a 2 party system into a 3 party system. Not exactly impressed with the liberals so it's not a great thing.
5. Oh who cares...
1. AV makes hung parliaments more likely. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
2. AV helps Labour the most. Not sure if that's a good thing either.
3. AV makes it harder for small parties like the Greens. That's a bad thing.
4. AV in the UK would turn it from a 2 party system into a 3 party system. Not exactly impressed with the liberals so it's not a great thing.
5. Oh who cares...
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Ouch! Sounds like the real villains here are the ones who put AV on the agenda as a Big Political Step. And who's that? Articul8, other electoralist left idiots and the lib dem slimes.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Who cares indeed, fuck the lot of them.
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