Yes or No -AV referendum May 2011

[Streathamite]

The prinipal beneficiaries of keeping FPTP are....? The Tories. The No campaign gets most of its cash and staff from...? The Tories.

To the extent that a No vote hits the coalition, it does so in a way which the Tories stand to gain most from.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<The point.





<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Articul8.
Never mind!

 

[nino_savatte]

There is a decent chance of another Tory/LD coalition under FPTP so it's not the end of the world if the no vote wins. Personally I think AV is a better system though as you get to rank candidates, and MPs need to win a popular vote.

Nothing like good old fashioned emotional blackmail, eh?

How is AV "better"?

I realise I could be waiting all of eternity for an answer from you.

 

[frogwoman]

There is a decent chance of another Tory/LD coalition under FPTP so it's not the end of the world if the no vote wins.

There will never be a chance

you are finished

 

[Streathamite]

The prinipal beneficiaries of keeping FPTP are....? The Tories. The No campaign gets most of its cash and staff from...? The Tories.

You really AREN'T going to learn from your mistakes, are you?
0/10

 

[Streathamite]

There is a decent chance of another Tory/LD coalition under FPTP

Wot, with your magnificent 8%? Yeah, Sure there is.
Welcome to the wilderness - again.

 

[nino_savatte]

There's a black cab somewhere with the words "Reserved for the Lib Dems".

 

[redsquirrel]

Undermining a8's claim that not having AV passed won't affect the coalition is the fact that there's already spats about Tory Peers not supporting the bill

This prompted accusations of "betrayal" by the former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown.

"We have delivered, in full, our side of the deal - the Conservatives seem unable to deliver theirs," he told the BBC.

Lords still pushing for 40% turnout threshold

 

[moochedit]

bill passed

A referendum on changing the voting system for general elections will take place on May 5 after the Government overcame stiff resistance from the House of Lords to get the legislation through Parliament.
The Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill received royal assent after a torrid passage through the Commons and Lords.

The final hurdle facing the Bill was Labour peer Lord Rooker's determined efforts to insist that the result of the referendum should be binding only if at least 40% of voters cast their ballot. But the move, twice passed in the Lords only to be overturned in the Commons, was defeated by 221 votes to 153, Government majority 68, as the peer tried for a third time to write it into law.

 

[editor]

AV got pretty much torn apart on Newsnight today with the consensus that it's just a way to keep the LibDems in power.

Voters around the country are split on replacing the First Past the Post system with the Alternative Vote, a new ComRes poll commissioned by BBC Two's Newsnight suggests.

When asked do you want the UK to adopt the Alternative Vote system instead of the current First Past The Post system for electing MPs 41% agreed while the same amount disagreed.

However, while nearly two thirds (65%) of people agree that the system for electing MPs needs major overhauling, 63% of people feel it would be a waste of time and money holding a referendum on changing the system when there are so many other pressing needs in the country than a vote change bill.

1,002 people were interviewed for the poll which features in Newsnight's Alternative Vote special, tonight on BBC Two.
[-]

 

[articul8]

AV got pretty much torn apart on Newsnight today with the consensus that it's just a way to keep the LibDems in power.

Eh? How do you make that out? The poll above shows people clearly split evenly.

 

[articul8]

Undermining a8's claim that not having AV passed won't affect the coalition is the fact that there's already spats about Tory Peers not supporting the bill

They wanted the referendum as agreed not loaded with artificial hurdles like thresholds - doesn't mean they will pull the plug if they lose the referendum. They won't.

 

[Termite Man]

So the referendum is 2 days after a long bank holiday weekend ( including royal wedding ) and just over a week after Easter . Seems to me they have chosen a time for this when there will be minimal news coverage and people will be pre-occupied with other things .

 

[Streathamite]

Eh? How do you make that out? The poll above shows people clearly split evenly.

the consensus of the speakers on Newsnight, obviously

 

[Streathamite]

They wanted the referendum as agreed not loaded with artificial hurdles like thresholds - doesn't mean they will pull the plug if they lose the referendum. They won't.

and you are so certain why?

 

[nino_savatte]

Wot, with your magnificent 8%? Yeah, Sure there is.
Welcome to the wilderness - again.

Shame it isn't a Magnificent 7%. That has a nice ring to it.

 

[Streathamite]

Shame it isn't a Magnificent 7%. That has a nice ring to it.

it will be soon...

 

[butchersapron]

Huge turnout at the Yes London launch.

Here's the bristol lib-dems kicking off the local one.

 

[Teaboy]

Here's the bristol lib-dems kicking off the local one.

Actualy one of those girls is quite cute, plus she's clearly the kind of girl who will say 'yes' to anything.

 

[butchersapron]

You'd think after the pluralists embarrassing running around after Clegg screaming save us nick! in the week after the general election they'd have dropped the purple shit by now...

 

[butchersapron]

Incidentally, that Yes to Fairer Votes site - would it surprise anyone to learn it's set up and owned by a prominent lib-dem?

 

[butchersapron]

Incidentally, fucking hell

 

[nino_savatte]

Incidentally, that Yes to Fairer Votes site - would it surprise anyone to learn it's set up and owned by a prominent lib-dem?

Nope. When I went on the Take Back Parliament march last May, I was convinced that I was surrounded by Lib Dems. Turns out, I was right.

 

[Teaboy]

Incidentally, fucking hell

God, this really is fucking shit vote. Vote 'no' and align yourself with these sorts of utter cunts. Vote 'yes' and get a shit system which wont change much and will bring us no nearer to proper reform. Don't turn up and they will say there is no appetite for reform.

What a crock.

 

[Streathamite]

Incidentally, that Yes to Fairer Votes site - would it surprise anyone to learn it's set up and owned by a prominent lib-dem?

of course not

 

[articul8]

Huge turnout at the Yes London launch.
.

Yes, like that was the lauch at 7am on a Thursday morning - it was a little visual stunt

 

[articul8]

the consensus of the speakers on Newsnight, obviously

err - there were 3 speakers from either side

 

[kabbes]

The purple makes them look like they are associated with UKIP.

 

[kabbes]

The pink No vote billboard is utterly cunty though.

 

[weltweit]

I am going to vote no, because 1) AV will give more power to the Lib Dems and 2) because the voters for the losing candidate get their second preferences counted while the other voters do not, unless it is required to provide a winner. It gives the preferences of the losing candidate(s) a second chance for their preferences to count, a second chance which is not available to others.

 

[articul8]

Don't accept 1) - AV would have given Labour even larger majorities in 97, 01 and 05 and the LDs would have had no greater influence than they did under FPTP.

or 2) Everyone has the chance to have one vote that counts - preferences for (smaller party) candidates who are eliminated in earlier rou haven't had the opportunity to "count". People whose first preferences continue to count in the final round have no need for their subsequent preferences to be activated since their 1st choice is still in the running.