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Workers Power have split

North West Labour Party Conference 2009 me and friend, who's still an LP member and was at the time running for some committee post, went along. There was some women outside with a newspaper, very much in a trot stylee, and they were the posadists. Had a little chat, seemed reasonable enough, certainly no weirder than Socialist Action or whatever. Then I do some research and find out about the Posadists and oh my god, what a mad group! The workers bomb is pretty much the best bit of ultra-leftism I've ever encountered.

And yes most trots today are Cannonites in the style of the American-SWP with the exception of the SWP who were revisionists. This is the origins of the State Capitalism vs Deformed Workers State business which seems to matter so much to these people.

I personally think that the alien communists thing is even better than the workers bomb. And their theory of the workers bomb is not to be confused with the tanky version. My grandad was a tanky and for him the workers bomb was about the workers state defending itself from capitalist imperialism (the arguments he had with my mum when she joined the CND were hilarious!) whereas for the Posadists wasn't it about wiping out most of the population so that the resources remaining would be super-abundant and so communism would be inevitable?
 
yeah the RCP but there was a split within that as well, so that when they were putting together the 4th International there had to be two distinct representatives from Britain to acknowledge this split.

The 4th International pre-dates the RCP. I understand it was the 4th International which instructed the Trotskyist groups to fuse, to form the RCP in '44. My memory of this is not what it was. It's been years since I read Bornstein and Richardson's two volumed history about those years.
 
The 4th International pre-dates the RCP. I understand it was the 4th International which instructed the Trotskyist groups to fuse, to form the RCP in '44. My memory of this is not what it was. It's been years since I read Bornstein and Richardson's two volumed history about those years.

And before this there was the Marxist league, and before that the Communist League and before that the Balham group and before that (sort of anyway) The Marxian League.

brittrots.jpg
 
I personally think that the alien communists thing is even better than the workers bomb. And their theory of the workers bomb is not to be confused with the tanky version. My grandad was a tanky and for him the workers bomb was about the workers state defending itself from capitalist imperialism (the arguments he had with my mum when she joined the CND were hilarious!) whereas for the Posadists wasn't it about wiping out most of the population so that the resources remaining would be super-abundant and so communism would be inevitable?

Well there's some of them that claim the "alien communist" stuff was exaggerated by CIA agents operating in Columbia in order to discredit them, same goes for the stuff about communicating with dolphins.

I must admit that I do like the idea of the TUC getting hold of nuclear weapons then calling a general strike and threatening to use them. There's something about this apocalyptic communism that appeals to me, maybe I've just getting misanthropic and cynical with age.
 
The 4th International pre-dates the RCP. I understand it was the 4th International which instructed the Trotskyist groups to fuse, to form the RCP in '44. My memory of this is not what it was. It's been years since I read Bornstein and Richardson's two volumed history about those years.

I think you might be right there, but the "split" in the organization still existed post-1944, there was a Healy group and the group around Brian Deane and Ted Grant which would disagree over whether or not to join Labour. It's part of the reason why the The Club failed.
 
That family tree isn't just outdated, it's also wrong in a few minor ways. It also seems to suggest that the Posadists were a split from Militant!

By the way there's an archive of Posadist material online, including loads of British stuff. It's mental in an extremely boring way, which is unfortunate. Most of their paper seems to consist of very long, very tedious reprints of speeches by Posadas himself. There's hardly anything about building socialism amidst the glowing radioactive rubble of Old New York:

http://quatrieme-internationale-pos...d=11:red-flag-great-britain&Itemid=21&lang=en
 
That family tree isn't just outdated, it's also wrong in a few minor ways. It also seems to suggest that the Posadists were a split from Militant!

By the way there's an archive of Posadist material online, including loads of British stuff. It's mental in an extremely boring way, which is unfortunate. Most of their paper seems to consist of very long, very tedious reprints of speeches by Posadas himself. There's hardly anything about building socialism amidst the glowing radioactive rubble of Old New York:

http://quatrieme-internationale-posadiste.org/QIP/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=11:red-flag-great-britain&Itemid=21&lang=en

I remember reading those and for a while I was so infatuated with them I used to sign my emails with "Long Live Posadas" at the end.

I know I need to get a life.
 
The only thing sadder than the alphabet spaghetti of various left groups, from anarchist, to trotskyist, to stalinists etc (there could be over 100 in the UK alone), are those who pretend they aren't interested but take delight in all this kind of rubbish. I very much doubt there are even 10,000 people in all these groups put together. But they are virtually all the same and swimming around in an ever dwindling pool. The bigger groups such as the SWP and Socialist Party take pleasure that they are bigger than the Revolutionary Marxist Democratic Workers Communist Proletarian Internationalist Committee for Committee Group, but in reality they are all becoming ever more irrelevant and obscure. Personally I still very much believe in socialist and marxist ideas and it's a shame the shower we have now are what represent those ideas making it all a bit of a joke. You only have to look at the anti-cuts movement where we had three national anti-cuts organisations, with almost identical politics, all controlled by tiny left groups behind the scenes. At a local level various left groups did far more damage than good in trying to control and brand local groups and now we are in the situation where the anti-cuts movement is in a dire state. You had Right to Work, Coalition of the Resitance and the brilliantly named National Shop Stewards Committee All-Britain Anti Cuts Federation. If there had been one national federation and groups had worked together in a constructive way I am convinced we would have a far, far stronger anti-cuts movement than we have now. Instead we have three dwindling national anti-cuts groups, but heh ho, at least they have the correct position on some minor political position that no-one gives a shit about. The government must be laughing their heads off.

And in the trade unions the left groups go on and on with their mantra of rank and file, but never do anything practical to make it happen, instead just trying to flog their paper or promote their latest front organisation. In UNISON, my union, we have the useless UNISON United Left (probably not more than a couple of hundred members in the whole country), run by the SWP, and then other groups such as the Socialist Party not bothering to try and set up a grass roots network at all. All the time we are getting shafted by the bureaucracy in the union who go hand in hand with the TUC and government. It's a sad state of affairs. We even had two left candidates against Dave Prentis at the last general secretary election, you really couldn't make it up. I forget what the political difference was between them that made it so crucial that they both stand, I think it was difference how many cans of beans were sold by a support group in the General Strike of 1926.
 
Workers Bomb is the best.

Spartacist League are my all time favourites. First time I saw them they had a stall with placards on the front. One read: 'age of conception is a capitalist concept'; the other: 'the Dalai Lama is a capitalist stooge'.

Mad trot sects also seem to require a mad moustache as a prerequisite for getting membership.
 
Workers Bomb is the best.

Spartacist League are my all time favourites. First time I saw them they had a stall with placards on the front. One read: 'age of conception is a capitalist concept'; the other: 'the Dalai Lama is a capitalist stooge'.

Mad trot sects also seem to require a mad moustache as a prerequisite for getting membership.

Oh my god i have seen the sparts when they "intervened" at a session in socialism 2010. I don't like them because they acted like real cunts, basically accusing someone of being a fascist when he'd just been describing some truly horrific events that he'd seen in India.
 
Workers Bomb is the best.

Spartacist League are my all time favourites. First time I saw them they had a stall with placards on the front. One read: 'age of conception is a capitalist concept'; the other: 'the Dalai Lama is a capitalist stooge'.

Mad trot sects also seem to require a mad moustache as a prerequisite for getting membership.

Remember the guy from the IBT who used to shave his head so he looked like Lenin? Not all his head, just the middle bit.
 
Oh my god i have seen the sparts when they "intervened" at a session in socialism 2010. I don't like them because they acted like real cunts, basically accusing someone of being a fascist when he'd just been describing some truly horrific events that he'd seen in India.

First time I saw them was Socialism 2008. Mad bastards
 
And before this there was the Marxist league, and before that the Communist League and before that the Balham group and before that (sort of anyway) The Marxian League.

brittrots.jpg

Blimey. The last time I saw a chart similar to that was when I was a student swappie, poring over Stalinicos's primer on Trotskyism. It really is remarkable, especially when you remember that the membership of every single one of those groups combined would probably fit into one decent-sized football stadium!
 
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