teuchter
je suis teuchter
So how does the £4.25M cost stand up to your analysis?
Windrush Square, Brixton - news and discussion
- Thread starter teuchter
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So how does the £4.25M cost stand up to your analysis?
editor
hiraethified
That still bollocks though. The old raised grass bed on the corner was hardly a problem.
In fact, people used to live sitting on it in the summer and having their lunch.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I hope the kids use the fountain in summer. People will work out how to use the space in time, I think. That might not be exactly as before but they might find even find more uses.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Because it was a raised grass bed. So it was unlikely that many people would walk on it or attempt to drive vehicles across it or pitch stalls on it.
Of course the new square could have had lots of raised beds in it, and been a Victorian strolling garden rather than an urban square.
But it's not.
Anyway, come the summer I bet you'll see people happily sitting on the steps on that corner.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Somebody was moaning earlier in the thread about the possibility of the mist from that fountain blowing across the square on windy days. But I note from that Q&A document that it has sensors that will switch it off when it is too windy and/or cold.
I saw it this morning from the bus by the way. I thought the mist looked quite good in the low morning sunlight.
innit
c'mon, little life giver
Yeah, I've sat there a fair few times. It was always lovely to see the crocuses growing there too. I do think it's a shame they haven't incorporated some raised grassy areas.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
story
Changing the facts
I'm hoping that they'll plant bulbs in the future. I can see why they couldn't put them in for this spring.
The grass that was there before was just starting to become a naturalised environment when they dug it up. Some bluebells, native wildflowers, all sorts of interesting things were beginning to colonise it, and then they destroyed it. Bah!
Budget cuts means that the grassy areas of Brixton are mowed less often, allowing things to settle and grow. Anyone remember when the old Windrush Square was a dense carpet of daisies/
The grass that was there before was just starting to become a naturalised environment when they dug it up. Some bluebells, native wildflowers, all sorts of interesting things were beginning to colonise it, and then they destroyed it. Bah!
Budget cuts means that the grassy areas of Brixton are mowed less often, allowing things to settle and grow. Anyone remember when the old Windrush Square was a dense carpet of daisies/
ajdown
Posting in this thread
After the local celebrity?
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
Went down again today - a few chairs were being sat in and enjoyed but only those facing inwards - what a silly thing to have so many facing outwards to the traffic - a real mistake I think. The grassy area could be really heavily used if we get a decent summer - I could imagine meeting friends there even though I'm next to the park.
newbie
undisambiguated
somewhere flat for people to stand and sit by to slam dominoes down, plus somewhere close by for their little kids to clamber on or even- horror- kick a ball against. Doesn't seem hard to me, there was a group of people who'd claimed their little bit of space to gather, and who don't appear to have been thought about.
It's not even necessary to make a specific council approved dominoes space, just a design with bit more versatility for the users. Like some small walls round a tree, for instance
Do the users of the skatepark feel patronised because provision has been made for them? Is there any real difference?
There isn't a spot that obviously lends itself to colonisation by the dominoes players. Not to my eye anyway, but then I don't play the game. I hope they find themselves a space in the square, bring their own box, perhaps, but they could well decide to play elsewhere, effectively excluded from the brand new space. We'll see when the weather warms up a bit.
I assumed they were mostly facing that way to face the sun?
(Excuse if I'm being dumb and the sun doesn't point that way in the summer).
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
All year around the sun rises over the Ritzy and sets beyond Acre Lane.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
I'm going to miss sitting on that corner, eating my sandwiches and watching the world go by
I've visited the new square everyday over the last week, at different times, including at night. Some of those days have been fine and sunny, and it really does look to my eyes as if the space now attracts fewer users.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
somewhere flat for people to stand and sit by to slam dominoes down, plus somewhere close by for their little kids to clamber on or even- horror- kick a ball against. Doesn't seem hard to me, there was a group of people who'd claimed their little bit of space to gather, and who don't appear to have been thought about.
It's not even necessary to make a specific council approved dominoes space, just a design with bit more versatility for the users. Like some small walls round a tree, for instance
Do the users of the skatepark feel patronised because provision has been made for them? Is there any real difference?
There isn't a spot that obviously lends itself to colonisation by the dominoes players. Not to my eye anyway, but then I don't play the game. I hope they find themselves a space in the square, bring their own box, perhaps, but they could well decide to play elsewhere, effectively excluded from the brand new space. We'll see when the weather warms up a bit.
I'm not sure I totally agree with the comparison. Whilst the skate park is used by all ages it is essentially classified and provided by the council as a "youth facility" (their description) as are swings and climbing frames. I doubt it ever would have been provided if it were for purely adult needs. It gives kids a safer environment to engage in something that can actually be quite dangerous. Unless you are suggesting that the dominoes players are a predominantly "special needs" group I think it would be patronising to expect the cater for them in the same way as they do a bunch of kids. Like you said, they could easily bring a box or lightweight table and put it where ever they want - using the chairs/turd bench provided or not. It'll also make the game a damned side more fun to watch since the gents will be able to upturn the tables like they used to do in the Effra - something they couldn't do with a heavy fixed table! But anyone who feels strongly that these chaps have been excluded should really make the effort to petition the BCA and Council who I am sure will be able to incorporate it into the imminent Raleigh Hall development.
As for space to kick about on - the lawn directly opposite on the St Matthews Road boundary of the peace gardens is pretty large, hardly used and enclosed by a fence. And there are swings and a slide (also underused).
I don't think the new space was ever intended to be recreational facility or playground. It's day to day purpose is to be a public throughfare and space to congregate -it provides a blank canvas for people to make their own. If any public area is judged on whether it provided very specifically for lots of different needs I guess it would be deemed to failure.
newbie
undisambiguated
I think "special needs" is too strong, it's just a local pastime that could have had provision made.
Perhaps it boils down to blank canvas opposed to versatility, or to just who the space is intended for. The dominoes players, and their kids, could well end up in the peace garden, along with the drinkers. If that's the outcome the symbolism will be obvious.
Perhaps it boils down to blank canvas opposed to versatility, or to just who the space is intended for. The dominoes players, and their kids, could well end up in the peace garden, along with the drinkers. If that's the outcome the symbolism will be obvious.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
it's been taken over by skaters - posh kids with big teeth. they look like they're from that sitcom outnumbered.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
It was great first thing - well, 11.00ish. Had three lovely chats, including Dot on her way home to Streatham who was making sure the sq. will be ok for the big Methodist congregation on Good Friday, the poshest Parky/weekend copper in the world and a nice woman from Brixton Hill with a coffee and paper - they all loved it. I loved my muffin as well. Funny thing we found was the angle of the chairs invites conversation with strangers but wasn't acute enough to force it.
The more I think about it the more I like that nothing's prescribed; some people sit on the steps, others on the concrete thing, some even on the chairs. Maybe some on the grass. Kids messing in the fountain, dad and son having a kick about, all good as fas as I could see.
The more I think about it the more I like that nothing's prescribed; some people sit on the steps, others on the concrete thing, some even on the chairs. Maybe some on the grass. Kids messing in the fountain, dad and son having a kick about, all good as fas as I could see.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
The Olympics Opening ceremony will be like; a supermarket trolley with a bit of old tat tied to it - Welcome to London.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I think it is a real shame you feel that way about it but appreciate that you're not the only one. There are plenty of things about the space that aren't the way I would have done it, and plenty of details which I don't care for and some which I think are tacky - but all in all I get a good, dare I saw almost uplifting, feeling walking through it which I never got from the old set up.
I think it is a real pity if you dismiss the gardens around the back of the church in such a negative way. That area alone is at least as big as the old Windrush Square. I can see it from my window and there are very rarely any drinkers in that area, day or night. It is not even in sight of where the drinkers currently meet on the opposite site of the church - as well as being separated by a small gate. 10 years ago it was a little hairy with people shooting up at the bottom of the clock tower but that has been cleaned up for quite some time now. It's only 50m from the new square, most of it is grass, loads of space for kids to play, railings to keep kids and balls off the road, a couple of benches, swings, the bank is about to be covered in daffs as it is every spring, it has fantastic old yew trees and it is south facing so it gets sunshine all day. It is a wonderful resource to have in the centre of an inner city area, it provides a great contrast to the new square and yet you feel that someone would only choose to use such a space if they were being socially excluded. I think that's a real pity.
I'm no fan of Lambeth Council. I've had plenty of run-ins with them. But I do sometimes find myself thinking that it must be truly soul destroying for those trying to make any positive change to the place.
As for the domino players - I'm sure they'll work something out that suits them.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
U say in later post that S by D was relevant to circulation routes in postwar housing estates. This is a square not a housing estate.
Problems on estates come from more than one source. This thread is about a square. One of my problems with S by D is that something that was supposed to be used for large estates gets used on other projects like this.
The objection to S and D is that imo Police views trump local opinion. There was a lot of public consultation on the square. If S by D was to be used then why bother with making local people appear they have a big say in it when they dont.
We will have to see how it goes but on first seeing the finished square I was surprised how obviously it was designed for easy (cheap) maintenance and Policing. Saves the Police a lot of manpower if they have good sightlines across the square. Last Friday I saw one copper standing outside Kentucky looking across the square. I thought that now it just needs one copper to police the whole space. Brilliant design
. Is this going to be a convivial space where people can interact in a spontaneous way? Or are we all getting to used to being under under "benevolent" surveillance?
I agree if you think that planning is an element in altering peoples behaviour.
Have u read Ground Control?
http://www.annaminton.com/Ground_Control.htm
Jonti
what the dormouse said
I've used that space with my kids, but no, it's not popular, not with anyone.
One has to run the gauntlet of the A23 or its feeder roads just to access the place, and once one is in there the smell and noise from the traffic is intrusive.
I'd guess that's why children do not ask to be taken to that playground to play!
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