Windrush Square, Brixton - news and discussion

[lang rabbie]

I think it is a real pity if you dismiss the gardens around the back of the church in such a negative way. That area alone is at least as big as the old Windrush Square. I can see it from my window and there are very rarely any drinkers in that area, day or night. It is not even in sight of where the drinkers currently meet on the opposite site of the church - as well as being separated by a small gate. 10 years ago it was a little hairy with people shooting up at the bottom of the clock tower but that has been cleaned up for quite some time now. It's only 50m from the new square, most of it is grass, loads of space for kids to play, railings to keep kids and balls off the road, a couple of benches, swings, the bank is about to be covered in daffs as it is every spring, it has fantastic old yew trees and it is south facing so it gets sunshine all day. It is a wonderful resource to have in the centre of an inner city area, it provides a great contrast to the new square and yet you feel that someone would only choose to use such a space if they were being socially excluded. I think that's a real pity.

Unfortunately the playground is pretty much impossible to get into at the moment through the combination of TfL's delayed works to relay the pavements of the rest of the Effra Road/St Matthew's Road triangle, and the closure of the steps behind St Matthew's tower - reportedly bits of the tower are falling off again because of frost damage

 

[Rushy]

I've used that space with my kids, but no, it's not popular, not with anyone.

One has to run the gauntlet of the A23 or its feeder roads just to access the place, and once one is in there the smell and noise from the traffic is intrusive.

I'd guess that's why children do not ask to be taken to that playground to play!

Yes - of course you are right, it is close to the A23. As is the new square. The road is sadly a blight on both sites. My point isn't that the area round the back of the church is perfect. It is that it already provides what several people complain the new square lacks, e.g. playing areas for children to kick a ball, grassland to sit on, etc.. but despite having that facility within throwing distance people choose not to use it. Probably because it is next to a busy road. Just like the new square.

 

[Rushy]

Unfortunately the playground is pretty much impossible to get into at the moment through the combination of TfL's delayed works to relay the pavements of the rest of the Effra Road/St Matthew's Road triangle, and the closure of the steps behind St Matthew's tower - reportedly bits of the tower are falling off again because of frost damage

An unusual (and short term) combination of events though, it has to be said!

 

[Jonti]

I've often wondered why that playground is not used much. There's actually a number of these mini-playgrounds here and there. Like further south down Rush Common, and there's another on the "Brockwell Park Estate" (that's the redbrick estate on Dalberg Road, between Barnwell Road and Effra Parade). All three of these mini-playgrounds are hardly used, though valued by those who do use them. They're rather isolated, and not associated with any other recreational facility.

Then I think of the playgrounds that are popular, like the one by the One O'clock Club in Brockwell Park. And wider afield, the Princess Diana Memorial Playground, or the Adventure Playground in Battersea Park. What these have in common I think, is precious little ~ except that they are also associated with something for grownups to do.

Few parents take the kids to the playground as an end in itself. The kids' stuff needs to be part of a wider scene that attracts the kids' carers too. That's the key, I think. So I'd expect a playarea in the new square to be used as it's right by the Library and the Ritzy, and a safe walk from even more adult attractions.

 

[teuchter]

Walked through the square today around lunchtime and it was full of people including plenty sitting in those newfangled not-benches seats and kids playing in the fountain thing. A few skateboarders too like others have mentioned. I'm slightly surprised that they haven't put in any little metal stops in the steps and stuff like they often do to stop skaters.
Interestingly the christian singers have stayed put on the KFC corner rather than using the new space...

 

[pboi]

KFC has more traffic id imagine.

 

[ajdown]

Don't forget also the bus stops, there were several people 'leafletting' the bus stop queues in connection with the evangelists on the corner.

Strangely enough, there seemed to also be two independent groups of lefties out "for their cause" yesterday too, one down at the end of the market by Boots blocking the pavement there, and one on the Barclays side of the hoarding outside the old Woolworths with their typically obscure cause du jour. Why couldn't they work together if they're both on the same side of the political spectrum, and only cause one obstruction in an already very busy, and too narrow, piece of pavement?

 

[RushcroftRoader]

Just moved back to my flat on the Windrush Square end of Rushcroft Road after two years living abroad. I have to say that I think the new Square is great.
Spent Saturday jetlagged and slumped on the sofa. All I could hear outside was kids shouting and running around happily. Could anyone imagine that happening back in 2005-6 when things were really bad?!
Few quibbles: Not sure about the "fountain", which seems to me could be more accurately described as "large puddle maker", though dare say it will get popular in the summer. Also, agree with previous commentators about the fact that there could be more chairs scattered about. Guess more can be added in due course?
The old public loos look a bit out of place, but assume they were listed and immovable. And yes, it is flat, but isn't that the point?
But overall, I think its a fantastic open space. I really hope its utilised properly.
Agree that the Ritzy cafe will be hugely popular in the summer months. Can't we get a locally ownd coffee stall thing going? Always thought that someone selling fresh coffee outside KFC or closeby would make a fortune from Tube commuters.

 

[gaijingirl]

Can't we get a locally ownd coffee stall thing going? Always thought that someone selling fresh coffee outside KFC or closeby would make a fortune from Tube commuters.

There was a guy doing this as part of Brixton Bazaar (a small market) until recently - outside KFC. Someone said he'd moved to outside McDs - although I've not seen him. Gaijinboy got quite friendly with him - nice guy.

 

[Winot]

Can't we get a locally ownd coffee stall thing going? Always thought that someone selling fresh coffee outside KFC or closeby would make a fortune from Tube commuters.

Opus (of Acre Lane) have opened an outpost (inpost?) in the Piano House just off Brighton Terrace.

 

[Orang Utan]

There was a guy doing this as part of Brixton Bazaar (a small market) until recently - outside KFC. Someone said he'd moved to outside McDs - although I've not seen him. Gaijinboy got quite friendly with him - nice guy.

he's in the window of the newsagent next to mcds

 

[Crispy]

Few photos today of skateboarders.

Excellant use of square

Bet the architects and Council didnt forsee this one.

Hope its regular weekend thing.

There were loads of them out on Saturday when I was passing by. On the way home, they'd all disappeared, replaced by two police officers

 

[editor]

There were loads of them out on Saturday when I was passing by. On the way home, they'd all disappeared, replaced by two police officers

Damn kids using a public square!

 

[newbie]

I think it is a real shame you feel that way about it but appreciate that you're not the only one. There are plenty of things about the space that aren't the way I would have done it, and plenty of details which I don't care for and some which I think are tacky - but all in all I get a good, dare I saw almost uplifting, feeling walking through it which I never got from the old set up.

I think it is a real pity if you dismiss the gardens around the back of the church in such a negative way. That area alone is at least as big as the old Windrush Square. I can see it from my window and there are very rarely any drinkers in that area, day or night. It is not even in sight of where the drinkers currently meet on the opposite site of the church - as well as being separated by a small gate. 10 years ago it was a little hairy with people shooting up at the bottom of the clock tower but that has been cleaned up for quite some time now. It's only 50m from the new square, most of it is grass, loads of space for kids to play, railings to keep kids and balls off the road, a couple of benches, swings, the bank is about to be covered in daffs as it is every spring, it has fantastic old yew trees and it is south facing so it gets sunshine all day. It is a wonderful resource to have in the centre of an inner city area, it provides a great contrast to the new square and yet you feel that someone would only choose to use such a space if they were being socially excluded. I think that's a real pity.

I'm no fan of Lambeth Council. I've had plenty of run-ins with them. But I do sometimes find myself thinking that it must be truly soul destroying for those trying to make any positive change to the place.

As for the domino players - I'm sure they'll work something out that suits them.

I don't want to be unduly negative. I was against the idea from the start, so now it's here I'd really like to be proved wrong.

this is all speculation anyway, it'll take a year or so to get an idea of how the space is used through the seasons.

 

[gaijingirl]

he's in the window of the newsagent next to mcds

aha - I shall tell gb.. I don't drink coffee so honestly wasn't looking that hard... but he'll be pleased to hear this. Although he does often get his coffee in Max's cafe opp the Rec - £1 for a capuccino!

 

[Rushy]

Can't we get a locally ownd coffee stall thing going? Always thought that someone selling fresh coffee outside KFC or closeby would make a fortune from Tube commuters.

The TfL FAQ document says the square has the facilities for a coffee shop in the centre but needs planning permission which the council will need to progress. The Rush Common Act was a problem for planning because it prevents the building of anything above the level of the ground. The whole square is part of Rush Common.

Could just let someone park one of those Piaggio coffee bikes on the square?

 

[Jonti]

Hang on! The old Tate Gardens are not part of Rush Common (are they?) and the old toilets were in Rushcroft Road, which was street, not common land (surely?).

The new square seems to be a mix of "abandoned" public highways, common land, and the land Mr Tate bequeathed.

Not that I'm an expert, just what I've heard. Perhaps one of the Brixton Society's experts could give a definitive answer!

 

[Rushy]

Hang on! The old Tate Gardens are not part of Rush Common (are they?) and the old toilets were in Rushcroft Road, which was street, not common land (surely?).

The new square seems to be a mix of "abandoned" public highways, common land, and the land Mr Tate bequeathed.

Not that I'm an expert, just what I've heard. Perhaps one of the Brixton Society's experts could give a definitive answer!

Definitely Rush Common. There is a map attached to this guidance leaflet. http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...-AC1E-3F1E73EB6CBD/0/RushCommonNewsletter.pdf

Before Windrush Square became a garden there was a large garage on the site but it was pulled down because it contravened the 1806 Act.

I have a copy of the enclosures map somewhere and I'm pretty certain that it also runs along Brixton High Street north of Coldharbour Lane - the land on which Iceland is built was was covered by the statute but no one took any enforcement action when it and other developments were carried out. Brixton High Street was a big wide area for its full length.

 

[Gramsci]

There were loads of them out on Saturday when I was passing by. On the way home, they'd all disappeared, replaced by two police officers

I saw 2 police on bikes in the middle of the square about 7pm. Be interesting to see how Skateboarders are tolerated. If this really is "our" public space.

 

[Gramsci]

The Olympics Opening ceremony will be like; a supermarket trolley with a bit of old tat tied to it - Welcome to London.

Very funny

 

[el-ahrairah]

I saw 2 police on bikes in the middle of the square about 7pm. Be interesting to see how Skateboarders are tolerated. If this really is "our" public space.

Well so far we've identified four groups of the community who aren't allowed to use it:

1. Dominos players.
2. Skateboarders.
3. Street drinkers.
4. Coffee sellers.

I imagine this won't turn out to be an exhaustive list.

In fact, I imagine the list of people who are welcome to use it will extend to

1. People who want a quiet sit down beside a busy road.
2. Lambeth Council publicity events.

 

[newbie]

tbf, while we've been discussing the lack of specific provision for dominoes, I don't think anyone is suggesting they're actually banned from the square.

 

[ajdown]

Why should skateboarders get to use the new square when they have a perfectly good skate park about 5 minutes away on Stockwell Road?

 

[Jonti]

Because it's quite a walk away to go and see them?

 

[London_Calling]

Well so far we've identified four groups of the community who aren't allowed to use it:

1. Dominos players.
2. Skateboarders.
3. Street drinkers.
4. Coffee sellers.

Have we? I seem to have missed quite a lot.

 

[Badgers]

Backgammon?

 

[London_Calling]

Why should skateboarders get to use the new square when they have a perfectly good skate park about 5 minutes away on Stockwell Road?

Because they're kids and they try new things to see if they're more fun but if they're not they move on. I'm sure you remember being like that.

 

[ajdown]

Because they're kids and they try new things to see if they're more fun but if they're not they move on. I'm sure you remember being like that.

I grew up in the country so such issues never arose, we had fields and lanes and hills and stuff, and could go around safely without the current "paedo round every corner" paranoia that society instills in kids these days.

 

[innit]

I grew up in the country so such issues never arose, we had fields and lanes and hills and stuff, and could go around safely without the current "paedo round every corner" paranoia that society instills in kids these days.

you bizarre and hideous person, what does this have to do with kids skateboarding in the square?

 

[editor]

you bizarre and hideous person

The square looks pretty but sort of odd at night. Like a theme park car park or something.