Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Brixton Splash is coming up soon isn't it? That'll be a good opportunity to use the space.
Windrush Square, Brixton - news and discussion
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
It's already got more people milling about than all your photos combined!
If you're happy with a space that cost a ton of money that is barely used and has ended up with less seats, less people, less greenery and less activity than what was there before, that's fine.
If the purpose was to have a new square/triangle/whatever more or less devoid of people then I would have preferred more trees, more gardens and more grass rather then expensive stone and a piddling fountain that is less interesting than the one it replaced.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
But it is used. It's used plenty. There are not less people. There are more people. We must be living in different dimensions.
There is more room for people now as the space has taken in the bit in front of that derelict building providing a more inviting place to sit. I must have spent 30 or 40 hours there in the last month or so. 10 times as much as I have spent there in the preceding 20 years of living here.
There is more room for people now as the space has taken in the bit in front of that derelict building providing a more inviting place to sit. I must have spent 30 or 40 hours there in the last month or so. 10 times as much as I have spent there in the preceding 20 years of living here.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I'm still not understanding this perception of a square - any square - as something that's used. People walk through and people sit at tables in cafes and other commercial outlets around a square, but where is all this use that's happening everywhere other than Windrush?
editor
hiraethified
I can see you're keen on the place, but I'm only offering my experience (and photo evidence) of what I see when I go by.
Maybe it's usually rammed to the gills and I just happen to go by when it's momentarily empty, but I certainly don't know any friends who have suggested meeting or hanging out in the square.
There's barely any seats for starters.
editor
hiraethified
You're missing the point. I don't care what it's called or if it's a square or not I just want something that I think brings benefits to the community commensurate with its cost.
Do you ever sit in the square/space/park? Do you think it represents the best value and best use of the space? Do you think it makes for an attractive centrepiece for Brixton?
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I have used it but it loses an enormous amount by being sided by two busy road, in terms of noise but mostly (for me) pollution.
I really don't think it can work well - as some here would like it to work - as an informal social or leisure space while bordered in the way it is. But I do also think it's the first summer and it has potential, perhaps more for organised activity - which is of course different again from an informal social space.
Maybe innovation, maybe the rest of the development when it comes online, maybe the Ritzy will us it better . . . time init. But the noise and pollution from the roads . . . not good.
I really don't think it can work well - as some here would like it to work - as an informal social or leisure space while bordered in the way it is. But I do also think it's the first summer and it has potential, perhaps more for organised activity - which is of course different again from an informal social space.
Maybe innovation, maybe the rest of the development when it comes online, maybe the Ritzy will us it better . . . time init. But the noise and pollution from the roads . . . not good.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Yes. I don't know because I don't know what else would have been possible with the money available. Yes. I think it is much much improved on what was there.
I don't think it's perfect. I'd like more grass but then I'm not sure where as it would be worn away with footsteps. I like the fountain. The kids have fun in it but I suspect it could have been better without costing more. I think there are quite a few seats but I think some could have been better placed. There could have been more too.
What it has done is taken the underused patch of grass in front of that building and brought it into the square and it is now much much more used than it used to be. It was never going to be for people to spend the whole day there but to be welcoming for those who want to take a little time out and chill or sit and have their lunch. In that I think it has succeeded.
editor
hiraethified
Oh, I think the grass bit at the 'back' and the walk into the square from Effra Parade is far more successful. Its the big stone expanse, feeble dribbling fountain, handful of screwed down chairs and tree-and-grass-starved vista outside the Ritzy and library that I don't like.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
This might be because it's on the Mediterranean, is many times larger than Windrush Square, is the main square and principle civic space for quite a sizeable city with a tradition of outdoors socialising, has a major tram station on one side of it, and forms part of a series of promenades and running through the town.
Windrush square, on the other hand, is a relatively small space at the loosely defined centre of a locality on the periphery of the central part of a large city, sited away from the main transport interchange (tube<>bus) which functions partly (as others have said) as a kind of extended pavement but is required to accommodate events and gatherings at certain times which are not the times at which either you or I took the photos posted on this thread.
Even having said all that, I'd hazard that the density of persons per square meter probably isn't much greater in the Montpellier example than Windrush Sq this evening when I walked through, and unlike Windrush Sq I can't see any groups of happily seated people.
Just a few posts ago you asked how much it all cost! Despite this having been discussed somewhere earlier in the thread. How can you be all outraged at how much it all cost if you don't, well, know how much it cost??
It seems that most people don't share this perception.
editor
hiraethified
Because I can recall quite hefty figures being bandied about.
So how much did it officially finally cost when it was all finished then? (amazingly some projects do go over budget, you know)
Not sure why you seem to be getting all worked up about this, to be honest. I don't have to like it, nor do I have to agree that the bland expanse that has been foisted on the square is the best use of the space.
It's not perception. It's a fact. There are a lot less seats in the stone area outside the Ritzy/library, and the grass areas have vanished too.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I can't be bothered digging out the numbers because I don't feel qualified to have much of an opinion on them.
At what figure does reasonable turn into "hefty", then, for a project of this size and nature? Approximately? £500,000? £1M? £5M? £10M? £50M?
The reason I'm getting "worked up" about it, probably, is that
-----
Actually, I'm just going to go to bed.
At what figure does reasonable turn into "hefty", then, for a project of this size and nature? Approximately? £500,000? £1M? £5M? £10M? £50M?
The reason I'm getting "worked up" about it, probably, is that
-----
Actually, I'm just going to go to bed.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Will try and do a daily headcount when I go past on the bus each day. Can't guarantee accuracy but it might help this thread a bit
This evening I sat on the grass for an hour. At any one time in the paved bit, being as the grass doesn't count apparently, I counted up to 6 people on chairs by the defunct toilets with various people stopping to chat to them, 8 people on the turd and when I walked past about 8 people sat on the stepped bits circling the tree and another 3 or 4 sat on chairs round the tree. Then of course lots of people sat outside the ritzy.
The cutest little toddler made a break from her dad and bolted for the fountain. He just caught her in time but she kept heading back and he relented and let her have a run in. Then she dashed out then in again. Very cute.
In one respect the water feature is quite good. It's mistyness means people can walk through without getting soaked, but still enjoy the little thrill, or a cooling down.
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
Would ASBOs suffice?
They need tagging but this may make me late for work!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I estimated a 75% occupancy rate of the chairs at about 2045 this evening. The chairs around the tree were fully occupied and there were people sitting on one of the steps. The lowest chair occupancy rate was to be found at the S end of the promenade of square-headed trees and there were quite a few people sitting on the grass.
editor
hiraethified
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Would I prefer 7m spent elsewhere is probably a better question?
Sparking new Electric Avenue with new drainage, smooth surfaces and attractive Victorian canopies? A properly renovated indoor market area building on the history and providing new business opportunities? Or a much revamped Rec or leisure centre, providing health benefits.
I know it doesn't work like that, but I reckon you could have done a bodge job on the older square to provide much the same 'functionality' and spent the money more productively elsewhere. It's not bad, but it's hardly inspiring or providing new facilities other than to the Ritzy.
Sparking new Electric Avenue with new drainage, smooth surfaces and attractive Victorian canopies? A properly renovated indoor market area building on the history and providing new business opportunities? Or a much revamped Rec or leisure centre, providing health benefits.
I know it doesn't work like that, but I reckon you could have done a bodge job on the older square to provide much the same 'functionality' and spent the money more productively elsewhere. It's not bad, but it's hardly inspiring or providing new facilities other than to the Ritzy.
editor
hiraethified
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I doubt there ever will be. Too scared of the drug users/suppliers taking them over probably
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