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William Rodriguez - Fraud?

editor said:
Have you read their testimony then Jazzz?
Do you know if they're credible witnesses?
Where were they at the time?
Can their claims be checked?
Did they change their minds afterwards like your hero did?
Why didn't they say something at the time?
And can you possibly come up with an even remotely sane explanation why tens of thousands of workers, visitors and passers by all failed to notice this massive, colossal explosion booming forth from the WTC? Any idea?
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Why didn't the 9/11 Commission call them?

How come it's up to me to do the investigation? :rolleyes:
 
Jazzz said:
Why didn't the 9/11 Commission call them? :
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Why have tens of thousands of workers, passers-by and tourists all mysteriously decided to never mention a word about the massive, colossal explosion that rocked the WTC before the plane hit?

I know why. It's because it didn't happen and your hero is mistaken/confused/lying/being used by warped conspiracy nutcases (delete as appropriate).
 
Jazzz said:
I beg to differ - NIST themselves say the collapse was 'near free-fall' time. In fact it's only on urban75 that anyone claims otherwise. There was a massive dust cloud and it was incredibly fine. There were what looked like squibs. This doesn't fit with 'any sort of collapse'. The media commentators remarked that it 'looked like a controlled demolition' at the time - that was indeed what it looked like.
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These points have been covered in the other thread as you know.

Well if a media commentator says it looks like controlled demoliton at the time I can see it must be, because obviously there's never been anymore detailed analysis than asking a media commentator what it looked like :rolleyes:
 
of William Rodriguez being reunited with Felipe David. For editor who seems to be saying that there was no blast, he might look to look at David, and wonder what caused his injuries and put him in a coma.

e2a: fixed link
 
Jazzz said:
For editor who seems to be saying that there was no blast, he might look to look at David, and wonder what caused his injuries and put him in a coma.
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Might have been something to do with a large plane hitting the WTC at great speed and the resultant inferno, at a wild guess.
 
editor said:
Might have been something to do with a large plane hitting the WTC at great speed and the resultant inferno, at a wild guess.
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You do realise that David was in the North Tower's basement, and was the first person that Rodriguez whisked out?
 
Jazzz said:
You do realise that David was in the North Tower's basement, and was the first person that Rodriguez whisked out?
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How's this helping the statement-changing Rodriguez's witness-untroubled, evidence-unbacked, claims about invisibly installed invisible explosives bizarrely going off before the plane hit, Jazzz?
 
editor said:
How's this helping the statement-changing Rodriguez's witness-untroubled, evidence-unbacked, claims about invisibly installed invisible explosives bizarrely going off before the plane hit, Jazzz?
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I think I'd call a man with skin hanging off his arms 'evidence'. His statement changed little, the only quibble being a description of the explosion. There are plenty of witnesses. :rolleyes:
 
Jazzz said:
I think I'd call a man with skin hanging off his arms 'evidence'. His statement changed little, the only quibble being a description of the explosion. There are plenty of witnesses.
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Could you produce some eye witness statements from the tens of thousands of people in and around the WTC site who heard this massive explosion please? There must be hundreds available from credible news reports from the day. So where are they?

I mean, an explosion that big would have been noticed by thousands of people and they would have naturally told their friends (and any passing news media) all about the strange, building shaking, concrete cracking explosion that rocked the WTC just before the plane hit.

But - whoops - there's nothing to be found!

Funny thing is, just about all I can find is a once-amended statement from your hero. And the injuries to other guy don't prove anything - in fact they confirm what I suspect; what Rodriguez actually heard was the plane hitting and then he got confused by a secondary explosion. There's certainly not a scrap of evidence to bear out his bizarre claims.
 
You can't possibly keep disputing that there WAS an explosion in the basements - Felipe David is ample proof of that. :rolleyes:
 
Jazzz said:
You can't possibly keep disputing that there WAS an explosion in the basements - Felipe David is ample proof of that. :rolleyes:
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Err. Try doing a little research:

When the first plane crashed, David was taking inventory of the vending machines in the center's basement. "I asked God to give me strength. And I was able to get up and run six blocks to find an exit," he says.

Despite his injuries, David is grateful for his life. "Things have always happened, and they will continue to happen," he says. "I have to learn to continue to survive because there was a reason God saved my life. Although it will never be the same."
http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=4447
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He must have forgot to mention the invisible bomb going off first then.

And you know what's really sad? That was one of the few non-fruitloop links I could find about the man and his terrible injuries. All the conspiraloons care about is trying to twist his experience to support their fucking idiotic fantasies about silent invisible bombs. You lot disgust me.
 
A few Qs for Jazzz.

Is this the same Felipe David who was standing in front of a freight elevator in the basement?

Where are the freight elevator shafts in the WTC?

Did the plane damage any elevator shafts?

Assuming normal Earth gravity, what direction in a elevator shaft will burning kerosene go?
 
The theory that the jet fuel fell down an elevator shaft and then exploded(!) once it got to the basements is pretty incredible but would be discredited by other survivors and testimonies.

From earlier link:

BASEMENT AND LOBBY DAMAGE

It is noted that the damage caused by these explosions had previously been attributed to aircraft impact. However, refutation of this is provided by both the testimonies of William Rodriguez in the above link, and by NYFD Lieutenant William Walsh in the below link. This concerns specifically the middle, local elevators that were blown off their hinges from below, as evidenced by the doors resting outward at 45 degree angles that met in the middle near the bottom. These local elevators serviced only Floors 34 down to the lowest level of the building, Level B6 in the basement. They could not have been the result of aircraft impact:

Lt. Walsh- Answer: What else I observed in the lobby was that – there’s basically two areas of elevators. There’s elevators off to the left-hand side which are really the express elevators. That would be the elevators that’s facing north. Then on the right-hand side there’s also elevators that are express elevators, and that would be facing south. In the center of these two elevator shafts would be elevators that go to the lower floors. They were blown off the hinges. That’s where the service elevator was also.
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more

i.e., elevators which couldn't have had jet fuel pouring down them were exploded. As for the only elevator shaft which could have taken jet fuel to the basement:

Since only one elevator shaft was continuous from the aircraft impact level to the basement level, we can further rule out the aircraft impact as being the cause of the basement explosions by using additional testimony of William Rodriguez. In direct response to a question which postulated that the explosion was caused by aircraft fuel traveling down the elevator shafts, he stated, “Very strange indeed, since there were only one elevator shaft (the 50A car) that went all the way to B6, the operator was inside, Mr. Griffith and he survived with a broken ankles. He should have died burnt since on this theory the ball of fire went down. He is alive and well and I will interview him in the future to clear the disinformation.”
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Jazzz said:
The theory that the jet fuel fell down an elevator shaft and then exploded(!) once it got to the basements is pretty incredible but would be discredited by other survivors and testimonies.
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Unlike your several thousand tonne bomb which is corroborated by everybody in the area :rolleyes:

Are you suggesting that the bomb that you claim caused the seismic activity caused elevator doors to blow off? Whilst the '93 bomb that caused no seismic activity injured over 1000 people and opened a 30m hole through four floors of concrete.

Jazzz said:
As for the only elevator shaft which could have taken jet fuel to the basement:
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There were lots of elevator shafts that went from the impact site to the basement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:...Design_with_Floor_and_Elevator_Arrangment.jpg
 
Jazzz said:
This concerns specifically the middle, local elevators that were blown off their hinges from below, as evidenced by the doors resting outward at 45 degree angles that met in the middle near the bottom
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If the doors met at the bottom that would suggest the blast came from above not below.
 
My mistake, I was misled by that picture which mentions "express elevators" but upon digging around some more I find there was only 1 express shaft to the top of the building. What I can't seem to find though is details of the frieght elevators, it was a freight elevator that the internet claim Felipe David was in front of. Do you have these details in your notes?

Also do you have any comments of the disparity between the "bomb damage" (i.e. elevator doors blown off hinges) and the seismic activity compared to the 1993 bomb?
 
Jazzz said:
I beg to differ - NIST themselves say the collapse was 'near free-fall' time. In fact it's only on urban75 that anyone claims otherwise. There was a massive dust cloud and it was incredibly fine. There were what looked like squibs. This doesn't fit with 'any sort of collapse'. The media commentators remarked that it 'looked like a controlled demolition' at the time - that was indeed what it looked like.
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Take a look at their definition of the fall time in the FAQ:

NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2
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Source
 
By the way, if it was 'an inside job', why not just plant a huge truck-bomb and forget about complicated highjackings.
 
MikeMcc said:
Take a look at their definition of the fall time in the FAQ:
Source
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yes, and that's immediately followed with "... speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)". Near free-fall.
 
Jazzz said:
yes, and that's immediately followed with "... speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)". Near free-fall.
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And what's followed by, truth twister?

:rolleyes:
 
Jazzz said:
post #92 :p
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And that's another wriggle from the guy who uses these boards to shoot off his big mouth with his bonkers fantasies about what's supposed to have happened on 9/11, but then runs off like a coward when asked to explain the glaring holes in his ludicrous accounts.

How are your t-shirts for the site carrying Holocaust denying material going, by the way?
 
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